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How Wine works 101

werat.dev

121–130 of 188 posts

Re: How Wine works 101

#121

I SO expected this to be about the basics of wine making (the beverage) and kind of let me down after opening the link. Please somebody make wine-making 101

If you are fine with subtitles (and they look ok for me) then have a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8Sgoem_Jvk

Re: How Wine works 101

#122
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A lot of games, Red Alert 2 off the top of my head. Never got it running even in compatibility mode and changing the bit depth. Mate, I played Red Alert 2 off the original 1999(?) ISO last month on my Windows 11 installation. I had to copy some missing deprecated Direct Draw DLLs that don't ship with modern Windows anymore and everything worked. If you would have Googled the issue, you would have found tons of forum…

> You can't expect modern Windows to ship 20+ year old DLLs that allow running Windows 98 APIs as that's a major security vulnerability since older APIs had direct hardware/memory access without any kind of checks and balances. That doesn't make sense. If those old DLLs could bypass some security protections in Windows than that would be still a major vulnerability in recent Windows itself.

Makes sense to me: Exactly, that's why they're not shipped with recent Windows.

Re: How Wine works 101

#123

> Fifth, oh, did you want to run a game? Not just a hello world? Then you need to deal with DirectX, audio (hello PulseAudio, my old friend), input devices (gamepads, joysticks), etc. It’s a lot of work! These last paragraphs just made me realise how grateful I am to people who work on these open source projects without expecting any compensation or even praise for their work. It has happened once or twice that I tri…

> These last paragraphs just made me realise how grateful I am to people who work on these open source projects without expecting any compensation or even praise for their work.

I think it's reasonable to expect both, even if indirectly. Participating in a well-organized open source project confers extremely rich experience, and employers do take notice. In my company, the folks who spent time in the community generally noticeably out-perform the ones who grew up exclusively in industry (which should trouble industry) at similar years of experience. If you want to end up highly-compensated, it's a great way to spend your time.

The real challenge for the open source community is how hard it still is to make a living sticking to the original open source work, instead of taking your talent and leaving one day. Wine is one of a few exceptions with some companies in its ecosystem, but generally speaking there's not enough upstream-work jobs for a lot of important open source software infrastructure.

Re: How Wine works 101

#124
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think GP just meant that it can be ambiguous which one is meant (especially in the context of headlines like this); I'd imagine that even if it were always cased WINE it would still be pretty easily associated with the drink.

The only annoying part of the name is getting beverage-related search results when looking up error messages; but upper-casing it would probably not help much there.

Then they should have renamed it to LPWINEEX to give the name the full WINAPI treatment.

Re: How Wine works 101

#125

I thought I was going to get an explanation of why so many guys pay tons of money for fermented grape juice that tastes worse than just regular grape juice.

I hear the fermentation process helps the beverage make reading inane comments more tolerable.

Re: How Wine works 101

#126
post #6

What I'm curious about (and probably there are some good write ups about this somewhere) that how come modern Linux and modern Wine is better to run old Windows applications than modern Windows (7 to some extent but mostly 10&11). Did MS "intentionally" "left behind" certain APIs and system calls to sacrifice it for some greater good? Like I use Windows every day and have no problems at all. And I use Linux every day…

One big thing for games is that Microsoft swapped out older DirectX libraries to be fairly poor emulations/translations instead of being handled directly by the graphics card. You can get better translation/emulation libraries that you can swap in to an application, like dgVoodo2 that can improve things hugely (but unfortunately buggy with some games). I think Wine's translation is also much better than Microsoft's f…

Yeah, software using DirectX8- is a crapshoot on Vista+ Windows, and often is too heavy (because 3D) to emulate. I haven't had much luck with Wine either...

Re: How Wine works 101

#127
post #32
post #6

What I'm curious about (and probably there are some good write ups about this somewhere) that how come modern Linux and modern Wine is better to run old Windows applications than modern Windows (7 to some extent but mostly 10&11). Did MS "intentionally" "left behind" certain APIs and system calls to sacrifice it for some greater good? Like I use Windows every day and have no problems at all. And I use Linux every day…

what old windows programs from Vista/XP/2000 can't you run on Windows 11? It has "compatibility mode", just select properties on the program and select compatibility, and select the OS you want.

DirectX8- programs run badly on Vista+

Re: How Wine works 101

#128
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/darlinghq/darling but it's very early.

> but it's very early I thought I remember hearing about the project a long time ago. First commit of README is 2012.

Sorry, I meant early as in much is still not implemented, no GUI support etc. not as in the project is new.

Re: How Wine works 101

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of games, Red Alert 2 off the top of my head. Never got it running even in compatibility mode and changing the bit depth.

>A lot of games, Red Alert 2 off the top of my head. Never got it running even in compatibility mode and changing the bit depth. Mate, I played Red Alert 2 off the original 1999(?) ISO last month on my Windows 11 installation. I had to copy some missing deprecated Direct Draw DLLs that don't ship with modern Windows anymore and everything worked. If you would have Googled the issue, you would have found tons of forum…

You just can't claim that Windows has "backwards compatibility" if you have to "Google" for it. In a recent article about Linux backwards compatibility, I pointed out that OSS support was terrible, which meant that many games would no longer run out of the box even if statically linked (actually, static linking made the problem harder). It doesn't matter that lack of OSS is a trivially fixable problem (much easier that having to fish for libraries), it still means Linux is _not_ backwards compatible.

> I had to copy some missing deprecated Direct Draw DLLs that don't ship with modern Windows anymore and everything worked.

You literally had to copy the ddraw DLL from the Wine project, thereby solidly proving the OP's point: Wine has these days better compatibility than Windows.

> You can't expect modern Windows to ship 20+ year old DLLs

One can excuse it however one sees fit but this shows that Windows has lost the backwards compatibility edge that it may once had.

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