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How Doctors Die

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Re: How Doctors Die

#111

Post by mdda »

dmgottlieb wrote: post #103
celticninja wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re:saddling their family with huge expenses, this is a fairly unique problem in 1st world healthcare situations, in that it mainly applies to people in the US. In most other developed nations healthcare and bankruptcy do not go hand in hand.

But the money is just as wasted no matter who pays it.

Maybe think of this as one of the burdens that civilization handles for you : One never has to mix the emotional trauma of losing a loved one with the cold facts of how much money they'd save you by dying before tea-time.

Re: How Doctors Die

#112

Post by angelbob »

rdouble wrote: post #65
vacri wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How bizarre that they'll accept 'do not resuscitate' on jewellry, but not tattooed across the chest. "Do we think he really meant it? Nah, he just got the tattoo - if he really meant it, he'd be wearing one of those constantly annoying bracelets"

The bracelet is an official state issued thing for people with terminal diseases. Obtaining one requires a doctor's order. A tattoo (or any other non-official marking) could be anyone, like a depressed person who is going to attempt suicide. Something related to this actually happened where I live last week. A 30 year old afghanistan vet wrote "do not resuscitate" on his arm with a sharpie and then shot himself in th…

I suspect he meant it, too.

Re: How Doctors Die

#113

Post by VMG »

dennisgorelik wrote: post #88
VMG wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your estimate hasn't any foundation either. The question is if we can recover people in the future . The chance of that is basically an unknown. However I'd put it above religion and similar things, which makes it worthwhile.

The chance that complex technology that has never been tested - works - is very close to zero. That complex technology is freezing human bodies in attempt to preserve it for the future. Even if in the future recovering technologies work - non-working first step (freezing) which is done today - will kill overall process. http://aidevelopment.blogspot.com/2008/12/cryonics.html

Even assuming you have the knowledge that the freezing process is broken, which I doubt you have, I find that any chance greater than zero is worth the investment.

I also qualified my original statement by saying that I'd do it if the technology improves. Extrapolating from past life expectancies, there is nearly a hundred years for the technology to develop until I need it. Saying the technology won't be there in a hundred years is a very strong statement.

Re: How Doctors Die

#114

Post by cturner »

tibbon wrote: post #96
ssharp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In Sweden medical care is free. I can fight as long as I want without them getting in trouble." It's not free. It's free to you, but it is placing additional costs on the Swedish medical system, which somebody is ultimately paying for. You don't have to internalize the costs of your decision. I'm not arguing whether or not you're a making a good or bad decision, or whether or not "free" medical care is a good thing.…

Free or not, it seems to work pretty well for the citizens there. You don't have a sizable portion of the population filing bankruptcy over medical bills and they haven't gone bankrupt like Greece. Something Sweden is doing is right.

Greece has socialised healthcare, as do the rest of the European countries circling the drain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Greece

It's worth noting that the US health model isn't a free-market system - the state links health care to employment, which distorts the market away from individual private health ownership, and creates patterns that make it easy for costs to creep up. The US health care model is a disaster: the state doesn't supply health care, but then also prevents the free market from operating effectively.

Re: How Doctors Die

#115

Post by tlrobinson »

vacri wrote: post #52
mfringel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if "NO CODE" is the name of a band? You're asking someone to make a quick life-or-death decision on ambiguous data when there is a clearly known and socially agreed upon way to express the sentiment. Having it on an annoying bracelet that is explicitly used to signal medical intent sounds pretty good to me.

So what if "NO CODE" is the name of a band? I'm talking about "Do not resuscitate" - and if you tattoo that on your chest because it's a cool band name, you're an utter fuckwit. 'No Code' is stupid anyway because not everywhere uses that jargon, while 'do not rescuscitate' is clear, plain English. As for the bracelet, I hate jewellery and anything from my elbows down catches on anything that I'm working on with my ha…

Hey "Do Not Resuscitate" could be a good band name too.

Re: How Doctors Die

#116

Post by kalid »

spodek wrote: post #104
AngryParsley wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A decade of research into affective forecasting says otherwise. It shows that you'll only be good at predicting what makes you happy if you read studies about biases in affective forecasting. See "If money doesn't make you happy, then you probably aren't spending it right" http://dunn.psych.ubc.ca/files/2011/04/Journal-of-consumer-p...

The abstract of that paper underscores my point that if you've thought about it you can predict better what creates happiness. I don't agree that only by reading "studies about biases in affective forecasting" can you be good at predicting what makes you happy. I know if I eat good food with good friends or family I'll be happy. I've never read that in a study, but it works every single time with me. I know plenty of…

I don't think reading studies is the only way either, but I don't think most of us have questioned what makes us happy outside of soceity's default settings (money/fame/toys/vacations).

People make all sorts of tradeoffs which are non-optimal:

* Extra commute to a better job with $XX,XXX more for +1 hour/day of travel (less time for good food with family/friends) * Move away from good family/friends to pursue better job * Pursue career X because it's more lucrative than career Y (even though Y is more enjoyable)

There are lots of biases like this, under the assumption the change will increase our net happiness.

Re: How Doctors Die

#117

Post by rasur »

angelbob wrote: post #112
rdouble wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bracelet is an official state issued thing for people with terminal diseases. Obtaining one requires a doctor's order. A tattoo (or any other non-official marking) could be anyone, like a depressed person who is going to attempt suicide. Something related to this actually happened where I live last week. A 30 year old afghanistan vet wrote "do not resuscitate" on his arm with a sharpie and then shot himself in th…

I suspect he meant it, too.

So then why do it in a hospital parking lot? Sounds more like a really excessive cry for help to me.

Re: How Doctors Die

#118

Post by marquis »

bh42222 wrote: post #72
rdl wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine not doing #2 unless I'd also be non-functional during the extended life period. If I could read, use the Internet, write, talk to people, etc., it seems like it would be worth pain (which will end when you die, no matter what). The only case where I could see #1 being a reasonable choice is if #2 puts such hardship on those around you that their lives become much worse.

For me #1 is easy. Screw writing and reading, instead travel around the word, jump from planes, swim with sharks and die in months. 100% better then daily visits to a hospital for a handful of years. What I, and a lot of people like me, are doing now by not doing #1 is gambling we'll get to do it in the future. This is an easily lost gamble, but oh well.

That sounds great but dying doesn't leave you with a lot of energy to do these things for long.

Re: How Doctors Die

#119

Post by Splines »

jader201 wrote: post #78
vacri wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How bizarre that they'll accept 'do not resuscitate' on jewellry, but not tattooed across the chest. "Do we think he really meant it? Nah, he just got the tattoo - if he really meant it, he'd be wearing one of those constantly annoying bracelets"

If I were a doctor, I think I would be more prone to recognize a "NO CODE" bracelet over a tattoo. A tattoo is a decision you made on a single day. Wearing a bracelet is a decision you make every day of your life. (Of course, you could say that leaving the tattoo in place is a decision you make every day, but it's much easier to remove a bracelet if you change your mind, vs. a tattoo.)

Opt-in/Opt-out, as it were. Considering the consequences, I agree with the reasoning.

Re: How Doctors Die

#120

Post by pedoh »

What are the best ways to make our preferences to our loved ones clear? Is it sufficient enough to have a living will, for example? Are there documents out there that I should be carrying in my wallet, and do paramedics seek these documents out in an emergency?
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