How Doctors Die • Hacker News Board

Re: How Doctors Die

#101

Post by celticninja » Mon, Dec 05, 2011, 5:28 PM UTC

fingerprinter wrote: post #12

So, couple of things. Just had my wife read this (she is a doc) and we chatted about this. We are in our mid-30s and several years ago she was admitted to the ER and then ICU for 7 days for an obviously life threatening situation. (She has a near blanket NO CODE, FYI). She recovered, but there was at least 48 hours where her odds were "much worse than a coin flip" as on of her colleagues told me. So people distinguis…

Re:saddling their family with huge expenses, this is a fairly unique problem in 1st world healthcare situations, in that it mainly applies to people in the US. In most other developed nations healthcare and bankruptcy do not go hand in hand.

Re: How Doctors Die

#102

Post by kstenerud » Mon, Dec 05, 2011, 5:36 PM UTC

silversmith wrote: post #43

danssig wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, when winning the lottery means living and losing equals the same thing as not playing; I'm going to play every single time.

But it does not equal the same as not playing. The end result is the same - death. Heck, the result of all three possibilities is the same. But the difference is in the length and quality of life leading up to it. Given the choice between now and couple years of pain later, I currently see myself choosing the former. I don't want to go through the process of becoming a disease-worn shadow of myself, and neither do I…

That's your ego talking, worrying about what other people think of your choice. As you get older, what other people think starts to lose its importance.

Having had 2 brushes with suicide, and multiple times being reduced to destitution, I've since learned that life is not defined by happiness; it's defined by experience. And pain is just as valid an experience as any. In fact, I'd argue that a life without pain is a life wasted. There will be joy and there will be sorrow, but every second of every day, your life ebbs just a little. It's barely perceptible, until you discover to your shock that 10 years have somehow got behind you without you noticing.

And that's when you realize that it's far better to live a life of pain than to live a life of regret, or even worse, no life at all. A random chance ignited the spark of life on our planet. It's amazing you're even alive at all, let alone able to contemplate it. Life is allotted to you in limited quantity. Guard it jealously and live it fully, regardless of how it feels. There's no arbiter at the end, except for you, saying "I lived my life to its fullest."

Re: How Doctors Die

#103

Post by dmgottlieb » Mon, Dec 05, 2011, 5:45 PM UTC

celticninja wrote: post #101

fingerprinter wrote: post #12

So, couple of things. Just had my wife read this (she is a doc) and we chatted about this. We are in our mid-30s and several years ago she was admitted to the ER and then ICU for 7 days for an obviously life threatening situation. (She has a near blanket NO CODE, FYI). She recovered, but there was at least 48 hours where her odds were "much worse than a coin flip" as on of her colleagues told me. So people distinguis…

Re:saddling their family with huge expenses, this is a fairly unique problem in 1st world healthcare situations, in that it mainly applies to people in the US. In most other developed nations healthcare and bankruptcy do not go hand in hand.

But the money is just as wasted no matter who pays it.

Re: How Doctors Die

#104

Post by spodek » Mon, Dec 05, 2011, 6:02 PM UTC

AngryParsley wrote: post #85

spodek wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans who haven't thought about it aren't, but when you've thought about it you can predict very well.

A decade of research into affective forecasting says otherwise. It shows that you'll only be good at predicting what makes you happy if you read studies about biases in affective forecasting. See "If money doesn't make you happy, then you probably aren't spending it right" http://dunn.psych.ubc.ca/files/2011/04/Journal-of-consumer-p...

The abstract of that paper underscores my point that if you've thought about it you can predict better what creates happiness.

I don't agree that only by reading "studies about biases in affective forecasting" can you be good at predicting what makes you happy.

I know if I eat good food with good friends or family I'll be happy. I've never read that in a study, but it works every single time with me. I know plenty of other ways too.

Re: How Doctors Die

#105

Post by tptacek » Mon, Dec 05, 2011, 6:23 PM UTC

The CPR example that's used throughout the article is a bit weird, isn't it? Isn't CPR performed when someone has no heartbeat? What does it matter if you crack their ribs? It's only painful if the person survives.

I'm not debating whether people should attempt to prolong their lives with aggressive chemo, just picking a nit.

Re: How Doctors Die

#106

Post by AJ007 » Mon, Dec 05, 2011, 6:44 PM UTC

danssig wrote: post #20

dcurtis wrote: post #6

I was in Best Buy earlier today and the sales guy who was trying to sell me a TV reminded me a lot of the doctors/residents I was dealing with during a few weeks I spent caring for a family member at Mass General Hospital a couple years ago. I don't think they do it consciously, but doctors try to sell you on their philosophies for healthcare. But it doesn't matter. You're sitting in a small room with dim lights and…

Well, when winning the lottery means living and losing equals the same thing as not playing; I'm going to play every single time.

Especially when someone else is paying for all of those lottery tickets.

Re: How Doctors Die

#107

Post by VMG » Mon, Dec 05, 2011, 7:01 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #100

Jach wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally on board with cryonics, it's really depressing that it gets swept under the rug considering it probably has at least 5% chance of working for a patient suspended today. Though your excuses for presently avoiding it seem pretty flimsy unless you're really dirt poor (I'd wager unlikely), especially when life insurance payable to the cryonics company is cheap (you only need $28-$35k for CI) and so are membership…

Setting aside how completely fictitious that 5% is, here are my problems: 1. Cryonics is the sci-fi version of Pascal's Wager. If cryonics is rational, than by the same reasoning so is Christianity. 2. Cryonics doesn't guarantee quality of life. If the brain is poorly preserved, you might be woken up in the far future with profound and irreparable dementia. And I mean "irreparable" not in relation to the limitations…

1. Cryonics doesn't have to violate the laws of physics

2. You can set the terms and conditions under which you want to be woken up

3. Setting aside the lack of evidence for this claim, I want live for selfish reasons

4. This is part of the risk. But there are numerous incentives for cryonic service providers to keep their contracts

Re: How Doctors Die

#108

Post by ahi » Mon, Dec 05, 2011, 7:05 PM UTC

dmgottlieb wrote: post #103

celticninja wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re:saddling their family with huge expenses, this is a fairly unique problem in 1st world healthcare situations, in that it mainly applies to people in the US. In most other developed nations healthcare and bankruptcy do not go hand in hand.

But the money is just as wasted no matter who pays it.

It's not nearly as much money in other countries. 5 figures on bad odds vs 6 or 7 figures on bad odds. If it's cheap maybe it's worth a shot?

Re: How Doctors Die

#109

Post by wvenable » Mon, Dec 05, 2011, 7:07 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #105

The CPR example that's used throughout the article is a bit weird, isn't it? Isn't CPR performed when someone has no heartbeat? What does it matter if you crack their ribs? It's only painful if the person survives. I'm not debating whether people should attempt to prolong their lives with aggressive chemo, just picking a nit.

If I was in an accident or an illness today -- I'd want them to crack my ribs and so on. In 50 years or so, when I'm 80 and in poor health I'm not sure I'd want the same thing.

Re: How Doctors Die

#110

Post by AznHisoka » Mon, Dec 05, 2011, 7:07 PM UTC

can someone please post this entire article or a cached version?? been trying to read what the commotion/drama is all about for the past 6 hours and I'm dying here...