Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Starting a food co-op: Year 1

quaran.to

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 181 posts

Re: Starting a food co-op: Year 1

#101

Post by bombcar »

luckylion wrote: post #86
Kalium wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coops often find it harder to borrow and they cannot sell equity. This makes the every "get some funding" step harder than it sounds. Going over the list I see a lot of people-organizing and community-outreach efforts. These are definitely going to be more time-intensive than setting up an LLC owned by a single person and running with that.

Why can't they sell equity? I live in a housing coop, and they do sell equity. I own 100 shares.

The amounts they need are high. They’re trying to get 1000 people to kick in $100 so they can get a multimillion dollar loan. Trying to get that is hard enough, getting them to kick in 3-4K each is nearly impossible, even if you can sell “shares”.

Re: Starting a food co-op: Year 1

#102

Post by bbradley406 »

tacostakohashi wrote: post #25
dugmartin wrote: post #22

The article mentions no open food coops in central or eastern Massachusetts but there are quite a few here in western Mass. Not sure why the difference but maybe it’s due to greatly cheaper rent?

It tends to work in places where a for-profit supermarket would be marginal (at best), but people still need their groceries, fuel, etc.

I'm not certain that's the biggest reason, I think it's more about the number of local farms, butchers, etc. Middle / upper-middle class health-conscious customers who are passionate about high quality food are a big part of it too, and there's plenty of them in Western MA and close-by NY towns.

In GB (Western MA) the co-op competes with two other cheaper supermarkets. What sets them apart is 2 day old (max) Atlantic seafood and local produce that hasn't been subjected to long distance transit (and the flavorless ripening process). Not having the "beige tiles and fluorescent lights" atmosphere is a huge plus as well.

Re: Starting a food co-op: Year 1

#103

Post by wonderwonder »

I don't get it. It said nothing about actually providing food. At what point do people grow or get produce?

Also why does race have to be brought into everything? Why have the 8th principal? Looking at your board members all of you are white. All of your support staff is white. Why cant it be just a group of not racist people building a co-op, where all are welcome? Why does everything have to push race? Its exhausting.

Don't get me wrong, I think its great you have a goal and are building something to help your community, I just don't understand some of the choices and I mean this in a "trying not to be a jerk" way.

Re: Starting a food co-op: Year 1

#104

Post by zzzeek »

wonderwonder wrote: post #103

I don't get it. It said nothing about actually providing food. At what point do people grow or get produce? Also why does race have to be brought into everything? Why have the 8th principal? Looking at your board members all of you are white. All of your support staff is white. Why cant it be just a group of not racist people building a co-op, where all are welcome? Why does everything have to push race? Its exhausti…

this article didn't seem to have anything about "race" in it except for a little box at the bottom. DEI is very important for basically any organization that doesn't want to be known as a bunch of exclusionary jerks. "Race", even though it's a only a social construct with no link to science in any way, is a big deal because people were enslaved for 300 years based on "race". After the Civil War, "race" was still used as an explicit or implicit basis for the next 100+ years to deny rights which continues to this day. So it's been a pretty long, big deal for a huge number of people who have been systematically denied equal status in society for centuries, it's pretty hard for any new endeavor to be equitable without taking an extremely long and hard look at how the endeavor interacts with this massive legacy that US society is only just beginning to attempt to extricate from. For sure it's exhausting. Think how exhausting it must be to be part of a group that's been systematically oppressed and terrorized for hundreds of years. You can choose not to give a shit because it's too "exhausting" to care, but that's not how food coops roll.

Re: Starting a food co-op: Year 1

#105

Post by wonderwonder »

zzzeek wrote: post #104
wonderwonder wrote: post #103

I don't get it. It said nothing about actually providing food. At what point do people grow or get produce? Also why does race have to be brought into everything? Why have the 8th principal? Looking at your board members all of you are white. All of your support staff is white. Why cant it be just a group of not racist people building a co-op, where all are welcome? Why does everything have to push race? Its exhausti…

this article didn't seem to have anything about "race" in it except for a little box at the bottom. DEI is very important for basically any organization that doesn't want to be known as a bunch of exclusionary jerks. "Race", even though it's a only a social construct with no link to science in any way, is a big deal because people were enslaved for 300 years based on "race". After the Civil War, "race" was still used…

"DEI is very important for basically any organization that doesn't want to be known as a bunch of exclusionary jerks" exactly my point, now you have to push it or you have to be worried about being automatically labeled racist. How condescending and insulting.

"it's pretty hard for any new endeavor to be equitable without taking an extremely long and hard look at how the endeavor interacts with this massive legacy" No, its not. Just welcome all, you don't have to say anything, just be good people.

I hear what you are saying but I don't think the answer is to constantly harp on it and I would think make it awkward for people of that race. Hey welcome to the coop, we really support Black people here. Sure they're black but they are people first and I have to think its tiresome from their point of view to constantly be reminded that white people see them as other. Its a superior point of view, look how noble we are, protecting the minorities with our power. I am sure the intent is good but I don't think it has the result that is intended. I have to take 4+ hours of classes this month at my employer to be told that I have to treat minorities well when much like this co-op 95% of leadership is white. Its condescending and I don't just mean to me. Just don't be racist and treat people like people. I guarantee just saying this has as much impact as the 4 hours of classes I have to take and their "8th principal"

One of my classes I had to take at a very, very large company told me that if I help out a minority and they get offended to not argue back, but "sit there in my shame". Its reached insanity levels and I think having the opposite effect. At what point does it start driving people that are generally center based politically further to the right. I was surprised as a generally life long liberal when it started to do that to me. I'm not voting for Trump but for the first time in my life I'm likely voting for a Republican governor primarily because of this sort of stuff.

Apologies for my rant, I guess it had been on my mind.

Re: Starting a food co-op: Year 1

#106

Post by KennyBlanken »

jpm_sd wrote: post #28
socialismisok wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most places I've lived on the west coast have grocery co-ops. Often they stand out in the market by carrying high quality, locally produced, or "hippie" food. Some folks prefer to shop there because they like the model - co-op businesses generally seem to be more invested in local communities.

Yes, you are accurately describing the Harvest Co-op which operated in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and failed to thrive. Aka "the People's Republic of Cambridge"? I dunno, maybe it was mismanaged due to excessive ideological community involvement? Or maybe operating costs were just too high in one of the most expensive cities in the nation?

Harvest's JP location was costing them an arm and a leg in maintenance and repair due to the building (an old mansion) being in very poor shape, and then Whole Foods bought up a property from a local ethnic 'super' market whose owners were done being in the grocery business.

Harvest built out a very fancy new store very close to a major subway/bus terminus that was gorgeous but everyone went to the Whole Foods which was closer to the higher population-dense areas. Location, location, location - but also WF was very stiff competition.

I never saw rotten produce. I have no idea what the other commenter is on about. Organic, locally-sourced, heirloom produce often isn't as pretty as the stuff genetically modified or bred to survive being shipped halfway around the world and stored in a warehouse for 6 months.

Re: Starting a food co-op: Year 1

#107

Post by DIARRHEA_xd »

wonderwonder wrote: post #103

I don't get it. It said nothing about actually providing food. At what point do people grow or get produce? Also why does race have to be brought into everything? Why have the 8th principal? Looking at your board members all of you are white. All of your support staff is white. Why cant it be just a group of not racist people building a co-op, where all are welcome? Why does everything have to push race? Its exhausti…

this seems misdirected. there was only one paragraph at the end. i found the rest of the article insightful and interesting

Re: Starting a food co-op: Year 1

#108

Post by zzzeek »

wonderwonder wrote: post #105
zzzeek wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this article didn't seem to have anything about "race" in it except for a little box at the bottom. DEI is very important for basically any organization that doesn't want to be known as a bunch of exclusionary jerks. "Race", even though it's a only a social construct with no link to science in any way, is a big deal because people were enslaved for 300 years based on "race". After the Civil War, "race" was still used…

"DEI is very important for basically any organization that doesn't want to be known as a bunch of exclusionary jerks" exactly my point, now you have to push it or you have to be worried about being automatically labeled racist. How condescending and insulting. "it's pretty hard for any new endeavor to be equitable without taking an extremely long and hard look at how the endeavor interacts with this massive legacy" N…

throughout your "rant" as you call it, and your concerns and personal experiences, one theme stands out that you are very concerned and fixated about how all of this is making you feel. I would propose that likely the first step in understanding anti-racist practices and attitudes is learning to think about how others feel about their experiences. "dont be racist" is not really the core of the problem, it's "listen to other people and their experiences". because you can't really, on your own, determine how to "not be racist" without listening to what the victims of actual racism have to say.

Re: Starting a food co-op: Year 1

#109

Post by sure_about_that »

wonderwonder wrote: post #105
zzzeek wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this article didn't seem to have anything about "race" in it except for a little box at the bottom. DEI is very important for basically any organization that doesn't want to be known as a bunch of exclusionary jerks. "Race", even though it's a only a social construct with no link to science in any way, is a big deal because people were enslaved for 300 years based on "race". After the Civil War, "race" was still used…

"DEI is very important for basically any organization that doesn't want to be known as a bunch of exclusionary jerks" exactly my point, now you have to push it or you have to be worried about being automatically labeled racist. How condescending and insulting. "it's pretty hard for any new endeavor to be equitable without taking an extremely long and hard look at how the endeavor interacts with this massive legacy" N…

==I have to think its tiresome from their point of view to constantly be reminded that white people see them as other.==

It’s interesting how you read DEI and immediately think it only applies to black people. Have you actually asked a black person what they think about it? If so, what did they say? If not, maybe you should.

What are the DEI policies that you support from the Republican candidate? I’ve never heard of that type of one-issue voter.

Re: Starting a food co-op: Year 1

#110

Post by randomdata »

zzzeek wrote: post #104
wonderwonder wrote: post #103

I don't get it. It said nothing about actually providing food. At what point do people grow or get produce? Also why does race have to be brought into everything? Why have the 8th principal? Looking at your board members all of you are white. All of your support staff is white. Why cant it be just a group of not racist people building a co-op, where all are welcome? Why does everything have to push race? Its exhausti…

this article didn't seem to have anything about "race" in it except for a little box at the bottom. DEI is very important for basically any organization that doesn't want to be known as a bunch of exclusionary jerks. "Race", even though it's a only a social construct with no link to science in any way, is a big deal because people were enslaved for 300 years based on "race". After the Civil War, "race" was still used…

> DEI is very important for basically any organization that doesn't want to be known as a bunch of exclusionary jerks.

But the first principle this co-op claims to adhere to already denounces discrimination (including, but not limited to, race), recognizes fundamental human rights, and calls for open access to any person who wants to join[1]. They already can't be exclusionary jerks.

If there is some kind of belief that they are lying about standing by the first principle, what reason is there to believe they will adhere to the eight principle? The redundancy seems pointless.

[1] https://ncbaclusa.coop/resources/7-cooperative-principles/

Post reply on HN