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How Wine works 101

werat.dev

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Re: How Wine works 101

#11

Post by alar44 »

haunter wrote: post #6

What I'm curious about (and probably there are some good write ups about this somewhere) that how come modern Linux and modern Wine is better to run old Windows applications than modern Windows (7 to some extent but mostly 10&11). Did MS "intentionally" "left behind" certain APIs and system calls to sacrifice it for some greater good? Like I use Windows every day and have no problems at all. And I use Linux every day…

My assumption is that it's because you're not running full blown Windows, Wine is just grabbing the stuff it needs.

Re: How Wine works 101

#13

Post by marnett »

metadat wrote: post #5
jldugger wrote: post #4

Quoted post unavailable.

Warning jldugger: Despite the topic being a prime candidate for a joke, it's a tough crowd in this thread.

No need to attribute it to malice. Just community members following community guidelines to keep comments relevant, thoughtful, and substantive. Most of the low hanging “jokes” don’t really adhere to that ethos and are typically treated accordingly.

Re: How Wine works 101

#14

Post by johnny22 »

haunter wrote: post #6

What I'm curious about (and probably there are some good write ups about this somewhere) that how come modern Linux and modern Wine is better to run old Windows applications than modern Windows (7 to some extent but mostly 10&11). Did MS "intentionally" "left behind" certain APIs and system calls to sacrifice it for some greater good? Like I use Windows every day and have no problems at all. And I use Linux every day…

it's way more likely to just be insufficient testing than anything on purpose imo. Those folks have deadlines just like everybody else.

Re: How Wine works 101

#15

Post by nine_k »

haunter wrote: post #6

What I'm curious about (and probably there are some good write ups about this somewhere) that how come modern Linux and modern Wine is better to run old Windows applications than modern Windows (7 to some extent but mostly 10&11). Did MS "intentionally" "left behind" certain APIs and system calls to sacrifice it for some greater good? Like I use Windows every day and have no problems at all. And I use Linux every day…

The point of Wine is to run older Windows software. Who needs the most modern versions, just pays for MS Windows.

Windows, like DOS before it, adapts to run certain apps more efficiently, to sidestep their bugs, or to fulfill their assumptions which generally do not hold.

I suppose Wine does a lot of the same. It pays a lot of attention tp running old(er) popular software smoothly. I suppose Wine has more adjustments to run Office 2003 without a hitch than Win 12 does. Same for older popular games.

Re: How Wine works 101

#16

Post by _carbyau_ »

marnett wrote: post #13
metadat wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warning jldugger: Despite the topic being a prime candidate for a joke, it's a tough crowd in this thread.

No need to attribute it to malice. Just community members following community guidelines to keep comments relevant, thoughtful, and substantive. Most of the low hanging “jokes” don’t really adhere to that ethos and are typically treated accordingly.

This is essentially - don't be trite.

If you can make a substantive, thoughtful, relevant joke, then that joke will go gangbusters.

Re: How Wine works 101

#17

Post by gerdesj »

haunter wrote: post #6

What I'm curious about (and probably there are some good write ups about this somewhere) that how come modern Linux and modern Wine is better to run old Windows applications than modern Windows (7 to some extent but mostly 10&11). Did MS "intentionally" "left behind" certain APIs and system calls to sacrifice it for some greater good? Like I use Windows every day and have no problems at all. And I use Linux every day…

MS are profit motivated (by definition) and Wine is functionality motivated (again by definition).

MS are currently hell bent on getting you onto a cloud subscription for Windows as a service (WAAS) because that is their current business model. The Wine project is hell bent on delivering functionality that you want and they think you might want.

Wine is less about shuffling the start menu to the middle of the taskbar because ... err wankery that makes it harder to find and actually click or poke at and making copy/cut/paste into really odd little icons on right click menus (no idea what sort of poke gets the right click menu).

... Sorry, I'm not a fan of the W11 UI.

MS could not give a toss about you or your app (say an ancient db or a ancestor app). They need to generate profits and your old app ain't a profit centre.

Anyway, wine is able to do what you actually want your machine to do - keep an old treasured app alive and more.

Re: How Wine works 101

#18

Post by meibo »

nine_k wrote: post #15
haunter wrote: post #6

What I'm curious about (and probably there are some good write ups about this somewhere) that how come modern Linux and modern Wine is better to run old Windows applications than modern Windows (7 to some extent but mostly 10&11). Did MS "intentionally" "left behind" certain APIs and system calls to sacrifice it for some greater good? Like I use Windows every day and have no problems at all. And I use Linux every day…

The point of Wine is to run older Windows software. Who needs the most modern versions, just pays for MS Windows. Windows, like DOS before it, adapts to run certain apps more efficiently, to sidestep their bugs, or to fulfill their assumptions which generally do not hold. I suppose Wine does a lot of the same. It pays a lot of attention tp running old(er) popular software smoothly. I suppose Wine has more adjustments…

To wine's biggest "stakeholder" at the moment(Valve), I'd argue that running modern applications is actually more important - but then again, that is with a focus on games, so apps like Office or Photoshop don't necessarily benefit that much from the improvements that the Codeweavers people work on for them.

Re: How Wine works 101

#19

Post by pizza234 »

gerdesj wrote: post #17
haunter wrote: post #6

What I'm curious about (and probably there are some good write ups about this somewhere) that how come modern Linux and modern Wine is better to run old Windows applications than modern Windows (7 to some extent but mostly 10&11). Did MS "intentionally" "left behind" certain APIs and system calls to sacrifice it for some greater good? Like I use Windows every day and have no problems at all. And I use Linux every day…

MS are profit motivated (by definition) and Wine is functionality motivated (again by definition). MS are currently hell bent on getting you onto a cloud subscription for Windows as a service (WAAS) because that is their current business model. The Wine project is hell bent on delivering functionality that you want and they think you might want. Wine is less about shuffling the start menu to the middle of the taskbar…

I'm no Windows fan, but this is not an accurate portrayal (d'oh!).

Microsoft has historically put a huge amount of effort in (backwards) compatibility. Here's a famous example: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/windows-95-went-the-....

Related (sub) discussion on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13450160.

It's possible that they changed strategy recently, but there is a very long history of extraordinary (backwards) compatibility.

Re: How Wine works 101

#20

Post by Koshkin »

nine_k wrote: post #15
haunter wrote: post #6

What I'm curious about (and probably there are some good write ups about this somewhere) that how come modern Linux and modern Wine is better to run old Windows applications than modern Windows (7 to some extent but mostly 10&11). Did MS "intentionally" "left behind" certain APIs and system calls to sacrifice it for some greater good? Like I use Windows every day and have no problems at all. And I use Linux every day…

The point of Wine is to run older Windows software. Who needs the most modern versions, just pays for MS Windows. Windows, like DOS before it, adapts to run certain apps more efficiently, to sidestep their bugs, or to fulfill their assumptions which generally do not hold. I suppose Wine does a lot of the same. It pays a lot of attention tp running old(er) popular software smoothly. I suppose Wine has more adjustments…

> The point of Wine is to run older Windows software.

Is this really true? What “newer” Windows software would not run under Wine “in principle”? (And, for that matter, what older Windows software wouldn’t run on Windows itself?)

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