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Expectations of professional software engineers

adamj.eu

21–30 of 116 posts

Re: Expectations of professional software engineers

#21
post #7

How much would they pay for someone who satisfies all 50 points? Where is the company that gives engineers enough freedom to satisfy all 50 points?

This list will impede velocity by quite a lot, especially with coming up with and implementing Plan B's

Re: Expectations of professional software engineers

#22
His expectations around producing documentation go only as far as "Think about what documentation or data users need to understand and use your solution."

That seems like rather a low bar, compared to items like "I can articulate how all the data I use is laid out in memory."

I'd prefer to live in a world where a professional software engineer was expected to write documentation, and expected to be competent at it.

Re: Expectations of professional software engineers

#23
post #9

I really love these points as a North Star, but these would be mostly aspirational for teams I've been on. I work on a team now where we get huge scopes of work and a couple people will tear that work down and would answer these questions as they do so. However, most teams I've been on deal with far more interrupts than the team I'm on now does. Those interrupts are lemented but justified by the business and definite…

It sounds like you don't think these expectations are unreasonable in a healthy environment. Is that what you're getting at? I believe it's possible to hit 50/50, and I think I personally do (with the caveat that I don't do all of these things explicitly, every time, on every project), BUT I'm also on a high performing team in a healthy work environment.

Re: Expectations of professional software engineers

#24
post #9

I really love these points as a North Star, but these would be mostly aspirational for teams I've been on. I work on a team now where we get huge scopes of work and a couple people will tear that work down and would answer these questions as they do so. However, most teams I've been on deal with far more interrupts than the team I'm on now does. Those interrupts are lemented but justified by the business and definite…

It sounds like you don't think these expectations are unreasonable in a healthy environment. Is that what you're getting at? I believe it's possible to hit 50/50, and I think I personally do (with the caveat that I don't do all of these things explicitly, every time, on every project), BUT I'm also on a high performing team in a healthy work environment.

I think the expectations are fine. In a sense I actually judge the engineer less than Mike does according to these criteria. If you can answer these questions I think it says more about how your team organizes and accounts for work more than the diligence and knowledge of a single engineer.

Re: Expectations of professional software engineers

#25
post #9

I really love these points as a North Star, but these would be mostly aspirational for teams I've been on. I work on a team now where we get huge scopes of work and a couple people will tear that work down and would answer these questions as they do so. However, most teams I've been on deal with far more interrupts than the team I'm on now does. Those interrupts are lemented but justified by the business and definite…

It sounds like you don't think these expectations are unreasonable in a healthy environment. Is that what you're getting at? I believe it's possible to hit 50/50, and I think I personally do (with the caveat that I don't do all of these things explicitly, every time, on every project), BUT I'm also on a high performing team in a healthy work environment.

> with the caveat that I don't do all of these things explicitly, every time, on every project

which is totally fine, most of those things don't need to be done explicitly. (as such they take less time than many commenters seem to think they would.)

being able to articulate something doesn't mean that you've taken the time to do so. just that you've generally thought about your task enough before starting it that if your boss asks you that question, you can produce a coherent answer in a timely fashion.

Re: Expectations of professional software engineers

#26

> I can articulate precisely what problem I am trying to solve. It's appropriate to put this one first because it shows up in so many of the problems that follow. Easier said than done when there's a deadline pistol pointing at your head. You gotta get stuff done. Show progress. Writing any kind of specification is just a slippery slope to Waterfall, geez. There's no time of any of that namby-pamby talking to and wat…

Yeah, right!

"I can articulate precisely what problem I'm trying to solve" is not just on that person. It is a function of their collaborators – product/program/engineering managers and other engineers around them.

If you are in a culture where it is acceptable to send tasks at each other without much context, and with harsh deadlines, and with a perf management system that rewards execution under such conditions, then you will get precisely the opposite of someone who can articulate what problem they are trying to solve.

In fact you will get a culture where asking questions for deeper 'why' understanding will be seen as disruptive.

Re: Expectations of professional software engineers

#27
post #8

I mean yeah this is great on paper, and applicable for bigger projects, but for day to day stuff there is no way I’m gonna pull another engineer in to run through these steps. This kinda stuff always reminds me of someone making a PR for something like a react component that lets you choose a time zone. It can be a 100 line simple thing or it can be an 800 line monster with files for typescript types thorough tests,…

> for day to day stuff there is no way I’m gonna pull another engineer in to run through these steps.

which of those besides #3 requires day-to-day interaction with another engineer?

and i'd expect #3 to fall out of sprint planning, or just talking with your coworkers about your work.

Re: Expectations of professional software engineers

#28
post #7

How much would they pay for someone who satisfies all 50 points? Where is the company that gives engineers enough freedom to satisfy all 50 points?

Expecting an engineer to do all of this even when they are at odds with rest of the execution machinery is simply not practical. It leads to heroic behaviours and burnout.

I hope this guy has a complimentary list of 50 things for other roles.

Re: Expectations of professional software engineers

#29

Personally - I don't see a lot of value in this list (I read all 50 items and watched the video and I regret wasting the time). There are certainly some valuable concepts - but the presentation is fairly incoherent (including the video of the talk he gives) and not particularly helpful. Many of these items are utterly unrelated: Some are fairly specific to gaming (profiling/memory layout/timing) some are basic profes…

I think it has a so what problem. It sounds nice but then so...? I failed to understand what exactly the author wanted to convince people to do. Expectations - for who? Let's say someone does exactly this, then failed to actually ship something that people want then it's as useless as not knowing the list at all.
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