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How Doctors Die

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Re: How Doctors Die

#71

Post by [deleted] »

mfringel wrote: post #48
vacri wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How bizarre that they'll accept 'do not resuscitate' on jewellry, but not tattooed across the chest. "Do we think he really meant it? Nah, he just got the tattoo - if he really meant it, he'd be wearing one of those constantly annoying bracelets"

What if "NO CODE" is the name of a band? You're asking someone to make a quick life-or-death decision on ambiguous data when there is a clearly known and socially agreed upon way to express the sentiment. Having it on an annoying bracelet that is explicitly used to signal medical intent sounds pretty good to me.

[deleted]

Re: How Doctors Die

#72

Post by bh42222 »

rdl wrote: post #16
dcurtis wrote: post #6

I was in Best Buy earlier today and the sales guy who was trying to sell me a TV reminded me a lot of the doctors/residents I was dealing with during a few weeks I spent caring for a family member at Mass General Hospital a couple years ago. I don't think they do it consciously, but doctors try to sell you on their philosophies for healthcare. But it doesn't matter. You're sitting in a small room with dim lights and…

I can't imagine not doing #2 unless I'd also be non-functional during the extended life period. If I could read, use the Internet, write, talk to people, etc., it seems like it would be worth pain (which will end when you die, no matter what). The only case where I could see #1 being a reasonable choice is if #2 puts such hardship on those around you that their lives become much worse.

For me #1 is easy. Screw writing and reading, instead travel around the word, jump from planes, swim with sharks and die in months. 100% better then daily visits to a hospital for a handful of years.

What I, and a lot of people like me, are doing now by not doing #1 is gambling we'll get to do it in the future. This is an easily lost gamble, but oh well.

Re: How Doctors Die

#74

Post by zeynalov »

msimonovic wrote: post #57

http://xkcd.com/936/

False. Most of computers don't calculate every digit separately but they start to test most used words then other variables. This means, Igotoschool is much easier to guess than 8h9. Hacking programs have dictionaries and most of passwords are plain words.

Re: How Doctors Die

#75

Post by WettowelReactor »

rdl wrote: post #16
dcurtis wrote: post #6

I was in Best Buy earlier today and the sales guy who was trying to sell me a TV reminded me a lot of the doctors/residents I was dealing with during a few weeks I spent caring for a family member at Mass General Hospital a couple years ago. I don't think they do it consciously, but doctors try to sell you on their philosophies for healthcare. But it doesn't matter. You're sitting in a small room with dim lights and…

I can't imagine not doing #2 unless I'd also be non-functional during the extended life period. If I could read, use the Internet, write, talk to people, etc., it seems like it would be worth pain (which will end when you die, no matter what). The only case where I could see #1 being a reasonable choice is if #2 puts such hardship on those around you that their lives become much worse.

It is easy to say that pain would be worth dealing with but in reality the majority of the healthy public has no understanding of what true chronic pain entails. Ask anyone who has worked in long term or hospice care this question and you will likely find an overwhelming majority choosing option 1. The reality is that in the US death and dying are still anathema.

Re: How Doctors Die

#76

Post by spodek »

spodek wrote: post #68
kalid wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are notoriously bad at predicting what will make them happy.

Humans who haven't thought about it aren't, but when you've thought about it you can predict very well.

Why would this be downvoted? It commented on a defeatist statement that is only accurate for people who don't learn about what creates happiness, thinking it's only things like more money or promotions or buying products.

I basically echoed the principle of "know thyself" in a relevant context.

Re: How Doctors Die

#78

Post by jader201 »

vacri wrote: post #41
janzer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention that at least where I'm from a tattoo will not and cannot be accepted by EMS personnel as a valid order. Here is the relevant part from our Medical Control treatment protocols on what can be accepted as a valid do not resuscitate order: "Patient is wearing a do-not-resuscitate identification bracelet which is clearly imprinted wit the words “Do-Not-Resuscitate Order”, name and address of declarant, and…

How bizarre that they'll accept 'do not resuscitate' on jewellry, but not tattooed across the chest. "Do we think he really meant it? Nah, he just got the tattoo - if he really meant it, he'd be wearing one of those constantly annoying bracelets"

If I were a doctor, I think I would be more prone to recognize a "NO CODE" bracelet over a tattoo. A tattoo is a decision you made on a single day. Wearing a bracelet is a decision you make every day of your life.

(Of course, you could say that leaving the tattoo in place is a decision you make every day, but it's much easier to remove a bracelet if you change your mind, vs. a tattoo.)

Re: How Doctors Die

#79

Post by pingswept »

"It’s easy to find fault with both doctors and patients in such stories, but in many ways all the parties are simply victims of a larger system that encourages excessive treatment."

I strongly disagree with this part. Before patients become patients, the vast majority of us have no interaction with the health care industry and certainly no significant capability to influence it. Doctors, on the other hand, spend their adult lives working as professionals in the industry. To say that they, as a group, are anything but complicit is wrong.

Consider the "Fuck passwords" article[1] that's on the HN front page now. As a programmer who has dealt with passwords, the sad state of authentication is, in part, my fault. I could make the same excuse, "Well, the users don't want long passwords, and Facebook and G+ are part of the problem, and blah blah. I'm a victim of a larger system" That would be lame.

Like the doctors, I'm one of the professionals in the field, so it's my responsibility.

[1]: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3313790

Re: How Doctors Die

#80

Post by dennisgorelik »

Jach wrote: post #51
VMG wrote: post #19

One alternative that hasn't been mentioned here is cryopreservation. Once I have the resources and the technology has progressed, I'd certainly choose that option above being treated and "NO CODE".

Totally on board with cryonics, it's really depressing that it gets swept under the rug considering it probably has at least 5% chance of working for a patient suspended today. Though your excuses for presently avoiding it seem pretty flimsy unless you're really dirt poor (I'd wager unlikely), especially when life insurance payable to the cryonics company is cheap (you only need $28-$35k for CI) and so are membership…

Where did you get this "at least 5% chance of working" number for cryonics?

It's at least 3 orders of magnitude lower than that: no one was recovered from that frozen state alive so far.

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