Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

aeaweb.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 103 posts

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#21

Post by russelldjimmy »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #8
endisneigh wrote: post #4

I’m unconvinced that inequality matters. A better set of questions would be one like: how much does your parents (lack of) success predict your own? How likely are you to attain some arbitrary yet desirable standard of living, etc. Inequality is related to these things but doesn’t necessarily block them.

Outcome should still be proportional to effort and skill however. There are many top-heavy systems where the top benefits far more than the middle even though the middle is close to as good. Consider sporting events where the second place receives 1/3 of the price of the winner, even if it was a very close finals. Yes, the winner played better, but not to the extent of warranting double the earnings.

> Outcome should still be proportional to effort and skill however.

It seems to me that this is an unsolvable or at least a very hard problem. Ask 10 people about what they think the correct and fair compensation is and you’ll get 10 opinions. It is difficult to quantify effort and skill. If a very talented person produces better results - with less effort - than someone less talented but very hard working, who gets compensated more? These are tough questions to answer.

> Yes, the winner played better, but not to the extent of warranting double the earnings.

I am curious about these sporting events. Please help me understand them better.

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#22

Post by charcircuit »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #8
endisneigh wrote: post #4

I’m unconvinced that inequality matters. A better set of questions would be one like: how much does your parents (lack of) success predict your own? How likely are you to attain some arbitrary yet desirable standard of living, etc. Inequality is related to these things but doesn’t necessarily block them.

Outcome should still be proportional to effort and skill however. There are many top-heavy systems where the top benefits far more than the middle even though the middle is close to as good. Consider sporting events where the second place receives 1/3 of the price of the winner, even if it was a very close finals. Yes, the winner played better, but not to the extent of warranting double the earnings.

>but not to the extent of warranting double the earnings

It's a close finals because of the difference in reward between 1st and 2nd. If they were the same then the finals match would not matter financially as whether you win or lose you earn the same amount.

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#23

Post by eesmith »

nine_k wrote: post #15
Blikkentrekker wrote: post #6

Is there any industrialized, developed nation that is worse than the U.S.A. in this regard? I heard bad things about the U.K. as well. I turns out that having next to no social security, no accessible education for the poor and the bizarre legality of “legacy scholarships” has a certain effect. How is it possible, I ask, that U.S.A. universities openly and notoriously give favorable treatment to the children of past…

> U.S.A. universities openly and notoriously give favorable treatment to the children of past alumni Are these public colleges, paid for by tax money? I suppose that private institutions have more leeway. To my mind, the problem of the US higher education is that it was made "too" accessible by offering tuition loans, which result in young people taking on a large debt which they cannot even shake off by a personal b…

Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences

"almost three-quarters of research universities and nearly all liberal arts colleges grant legacy preferences in admissions"

> by offering tuition loans

I think you missed a qualifier. Tuition loans have always existed in the US.

What happened a few decades ago was they became much harder to discharge through bankruptcy, thus shifting risk to the student.

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#24

Post by Aeolun »

endisneigh wrote: post #4

I’m unconvinced that inequality matters. A better set of questions would be one like: how much does your parents (lack of) success predict your own? How likely are you to attain some arbitrary yet desirable standard of living, etc. Inequality is related to these things but doesn’t necessarily block them.

I find it hard to imagine anything that qualifies as ‘lack of success’ in the context of Europe.

Do you have a house, a car, and children going to college/university? Then you are successful as far as Europe is concerned, and that’s basically everyone.

Of course, that’s been going down the drain in the past 10-20ish years for reasons I’m not sure about. Nobody can buy a €500k home on a median salary any more.

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#25

Post by lordnacho »

Aeolun wrote: post #24
endisneigh wrote: post #4

I’m unconvinced that inequality matters. A better set of questions would be one like: how much does your parents (lack of) success predict your own? How likely are you to attain some arbitrary yet desirable standard of living, etc. Inequality is related to these things but doesn’t necessarily block them.

I find it hard to imagine anything that qualifies as ‘lack of success’ in the context of Europe. Do you have a house, a car, and children going to college/university? Then you are successful as far as Europe is concerned, and that’s basically everyone. Of course, that’s been going down the drain in the past 10-20ish years for reasons I’m not sure about. Nobody can buy a €500k home on a median salary any more.

Not every kid in Europe goes to uni though?

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#26

Post by threatofrain »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #8
endisneigh wrote: post #4

I’m unconvinced that inequality matters. A better set of questions would be one like: how much does your parents (lack of) success predict your own? How likely are you to attain some arbitrary yet desirable standard of living, etc. Inequality is related to these things but doesn’t necessarily block them.

Outcome should still be proportional to effort and skill however. There are many top-heavy systems where the top benefits far more than the middle even though the middle is close to as good. Consider sporting events where the second place receives 1/3 of the price of the winner, even if it was a very close finals. Yes, the winner played better, but not to the extent of warranting double the earnings.

For sporting events the ability of interest is attracting sports customers. You might argue that metaphorical Nike is mis-pricing top tier competitors, but that's Nike's fault and Nike's prerogative.

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#27

Post by kungito »

lordnacho wrote: post #25
Aeolun wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to imagine anything that qualifies as ‘lack of success’ in the context of Europe. Do you have a house, a car, and children going to college/university? Then you are successful as far as Europe is concerned, and that’s basically everyone. Of course, that’s been going down the drain in the past 10-20ish years for reasons I’m not sure about. Nobody can buy a €500k home on a median salary any more.

Not every kid in Europe goes to uni though?

But pretty much anyone can afford to go.

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#28

Post by rvense »

lordnacho wrote: post #25
Aeolun wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to imagine anything that qualifies as ‘lack of success’ in the context of Europe. Do you have a house, a car, and children going to college/university? Then you are successful as far as Europe is concerned, and that’s basically everyone. Of course, that’s been going down the drain in the past 10-20ish years for reasons I’m not sure about. Nobody can buy a €500k home on a median salary any more.

Not every kid in Europe goes to uni though?

Very few of those who don't go to university are doing so for financial reasons.

Not everyone needs a three-to-five-year academic education, but nobody should be blocked because of who their parents were.

Re: Why Is Europe More Equal Than the United States?

#29

Post by [deleted] »

defrost wrote: post #16
senko wrote: post #5

From the abstract: > Inequality grew in nearly all European countries, but much less than in the US. Contrary to a widespread view, we demonstrate that Europe's lower inequality levels cannot be explained by more equalizing tax and transfer systems. > After accounting for indirect taxes and in-kind transfers, the US redistributes a greater share of national income to low-income groups than any European country. "Pred…

> In other words, Europe has been much more successful than the US at ensuring that its low-income groups benefit from relatively good-paying jobs. ie By "Predistribution" they assert that most European countries pay better at the low end and thus have less need to "redistribute" from the better paid end.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN