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Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

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Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#381

Post by JoeAltmaier »

yrgulation wrote: post #263
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they just continue with laughable racist movies and media, and get a pass? Ok, whatever. Or do you mean, it makes sense that they are the way they are? I agree.

I think what op meant to say is if there is little diversity then naturally there would be no debate. But indeed i agree they should at least stop making racist movies. Boy do i hate race related debates. Why is race even relevant in this day and age? It’s all in our minds and it stems from primordial tribal thinking. Its like people from village A dislike people form village B because they will steal their women and…

Agreed. It makes a little more sense when thought of as really a 'culture debate', but that's just kicking the can down the road.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#382

Post by therealdrag0 »

mikrl wrote: post #379
notart666 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of them just can't speak English correctly. Only a small percentage of the individuals who speak English at a proficient level of those who do, they predominately come from very wealthy upper caste families and now you have a new problem. And well. When it comes to caste, many Indians simply believe it to not exist anymore in India because of how deeply engrained it is in their social classes they never notice i…

> Many of them just can't speak English correctly. I’m someone who loves seeing well written and hearing well spoken English. The standards I hold myself to are quite high. However, I have never had a problem with people- native or foreign born- with less than perfect English communication skills. Going down that route smacks of elitism, xenophobia and a hyper-normative mindset. The way you get good at standard Engli…

I agree, though there’s a point at which no repetition helps, which is really awkward. And honestly stresses me out going into meetings with them (not Indians in my case).

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#383

Post by ShredKazoo »

nonamechicken wrote: post #174
mkl95 wrote: post #53

I was a consultant for an American company that also hired dozens of cheap consultants from development countries. Mostly India but also neighbouring countries and some Eastern European countries. Indians were by far the hardest to work with. They ghosted women systematically which was a nightmare for our project manager. They also lied shamelessly about their qualifications which led to absurd situations. The proble…

> They ghosted women systematically which was a nightmare for our project manager. What do you mean by this? That they refuse to work with women based on their gender? "India has more women STEM grads than US, UK or France". And I see way way more women employees in software companies in India compared to US. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/india-has-more-wom...

The pattern seems to be that as a country becomes more gender-equal, gender-specific preferences become stronger: "the more that women have equal opportunities, the more they differ from men in their preferences"

https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.aas9899

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#384

Post by unethical_ban »

chrischattin wrote: post #368
unethical_ban wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make a powerful assertion against the tide of conversation then demand academic level sources without trying to convince anyone of your own position. There is a term for people like you and out rhymes with "scroll". No one is obliged to engage in your attempted argument nor to do more work than you're willing to put into the conversation.

I’m sincere. Engaging in racial discrimination does not fix racism. It perpetuates it. It blows my mind that I have to state this in the current year. We have regressed so far.

It blows my mind we can enslave, murder, ostracize an entire people and culture for hundreds of years and think "alright we're good" will fix it all.

It isn't a simple problem, there is no one simple solution, but saying "never provide any extra help in education nor acknowledge systemic issues in criminal justice and housing" is pretty shallow.

Of course, being an actual social democracy would get us really far, but poor conservative white people can't imagine a better life for themselves and poor black people. Effective government is evil to them.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#385

Post by 93po »

dominotw wrote: post #14

> and candidates aged 50 or above. Ageism is so bad they didn't even bother include the complete sentence in the headline. My main 'career goal' at the moment is find an exit path out of software development. Nothing else really matters. Its now or never.

there's a really short character limit for headlines on HN

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#386

Post by Yoric »

mikrl wrote: post #379
notart666 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of them just can't speak English correctly. Only a small percentage of the individuals who speak English at a proficient level of those who do, they predominately come from very wealthy upper caste families and now you have a new problem. And well. When it comes to caste, many Indians simply believe it to not exist anymore in India because of how deeply engrained it is in their social classes they never notice i…

> Many of them just can't speak English correctly. I’m someone who loves seeing well written and hearing well spoken English. The standards I hold myself to are quite high. However, I have never had a problem with people- native or foreign born- with less than perfect English communication skills. Going down that route smacks of elitism, xenophobia and a hyper-normative mindset. The way you get good at standard Engli…

I'm not a native English speaker. I've been practicing English pretty much every day for decades but speaking with someone who has an unfamiliar enough accent or dialect – or sometimes culture – is really hard for me. After asking them to repeat/rephrase a few times, I feel rude and/or stupid.

Me speaking with an Indian with a non-{US, British} accent means that very little information is going to get across during the conversation, because this problem shows up in both directions.

Of course, the issue essentially vanishes when the conversation is written down. Unfortunately, many native English speaker that I've been in touch with fail to understand the cognitive cost of oral communication.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#387

Post by AMerePotato »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #373
AMerePotato wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discriminating in favor or certain minorities is as close as you can get to balancing the injustice. Consider how many covert ways there is for biases to systematically screw over people, and how impossible it can be to definitively prove. * The things you were exposed to as a child. Whether or not you know/see people who look like you in a certain career path. * Whether or not you feel like you fit in at certain cla…

If a company gives one white person a job over a more qualified black person, that's unjust, and you can't make up for it by giving a different black person a job over a more qualified white person; rather, this doubles the amount of injustice. What this does is distribute the injustice evenly between the races, but this sort of concern about races (rather than the individuals that comprise them) strikes me as the ve…

Ideally everyone would only get the job that they verifiably deserve. Society does not scale to the level of the individual. We can't have an entire jury to judge whether vague criticisms like "They were good but too xyz" is actually grounded in their performance. Having injustice distributed evenly between the races is certainly better than doing nothing and having it being distributed unevenly.

> We can tell that it occurs, but we can't even accurately measure the degree to which it occurs. Our discourse generally just assumes that the degree of disparity is the degree of discrimination on the really, really awful assumption that disparities can only be caused by discrimination.

Plenty of studies have been done on this topic. I don't think it's controversial to say that disparities are due to discrimination

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#388

Post by 29athrowaway »

alephnerd wrote: post #285
29athrowaway wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My observation is that the Indians that make it to the US via companies like TCS, Infosys and others, are the product of a highly political environment where you are expected to worship your manager and tend to be political as fuck. They are very different to Indians that have not worked in such environments, who tend to be much more trustworthy and ethical. In America, a manager is another employee who can be wrong…

A lot of it is due to lack of resources. Even Indian grads view TCS and TCS type companies as the choice of last resort. They’re still paying the same wages as they were in the early 2000s (3.5 Lakh), while ignoring inflation (3.5 lakh would be around $10k in the 2000s but only around $5k in 2022). Lots of Indian companies and western companies pay way more than that. Heck, even farming would get you a guaranteed 3 L…

They should just go on strike.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#389

Post by TMWNN »

notart666 wrote: post #73
mkl95 wrote: post #53

I was a consultant for an American company that also hired dozens of cheap consultants from development countries. Mostly India but also neighbouring countries and some Eastern European countries. Indians were by far the hardest to work with. They ghosted women systematically which was a nightmare for our project manager. They also lied shamelessly about their qualifications which led to absurd situations. The proble…

Many of them just can't speak English correctly. Only a small percentage of the individuals who speak English at a proficient level of those who do, they predominately come from very wealthy upper caste families and now you have a new problem. And well. When it comes to caste, many Indians simply believe it to not exist anymore in India because of how deeply engrained it is in their social classes they never notice i…

>Only a small percentage of the individuals who speak English at a proficient level of those who do, they predominately come from very wealthy upper caste families and now you have a new problem.

As a non-Indian, the caste problem seems so endemic that the only solution seems to be to not hire anyone born in India. Their American-born children will, presumably, have overcome the issue.

(Not 100% serious, but not 100% joking.)

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#390

Post by broke_idiot »

29athrowaway wrote: post #388
alephnerd wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of it is due to lack of resources. Even Indian grads view TCS and TCS type companies as the choice of last resort. They’re still paying the same wages as they were in the early 2000s (3.5 Lakh), while ignoring inflation (3.5 lakh would be around $10k in the 2000s but only around $5k in 2022). Lots of Indian companies and western companies pay way more than that. Heck, even farming would get you a guaranteed 3 L…

They should just go on strike.

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