Live data from Hacker News

Running GUI Linux in a virtual machine on a Mac

developer.apple.com

141–150 of 206 posts

Re: Running GUI Linux in a virtual machine on a Mac

#141
post #17
post #12

The year of desktop Linux has arrived, where all major desktop platforms run Linux distributions inside virtual machines.

The only problem: becoming root doesn't mean you now control the device (you paid for).

You can install Asahi Linux on an Apple Silicon Mac. What control do you feel you lack?

Re: Running GUI Linux in a virtual machine on a Mac

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Options are good. But the way Apple operates to exert control and cripples softwares that don't align with their goals, don't be surprised if Apple suddenly forces developers to only use their virtualisation API on macOS, just like they did for application firewalls (that are no longer allowed to have their own custom kernel extensions for "security" and "stability"). They are slowly squeezing macOS to make it more a…

They had the opportunity to do this when introducing the M-series Macs, because under the hood those work very similarly to iPhones and iPads. They could've done a direct copy-paste from the iDevice boot process and called it a day, but they didn't… they went out of their way to develop support for booting third-party operating systems, complete with a path for painless long term support with the flexibility of allow…

> They had the opportunity to do this when introducing the M-series Macs

No, they didn't because a Mac computer that is fully locked like the iDevices wouldn't have been popular and would have meant a lot of bad publicity for the M1 mac desktops. Apple Silicon M1 / M2 macs can only run crippled versions of other OSes and macOS is being slowly converted to be more and more like ios. It's the Boiling Frog strategy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog - to ensure that they don't scare away their users. With soldered harware, no viable alternate OSes, and taking away developer options from macOS, all Apple Silicon M1/M2 macs are now just a few more steps away from becoming like the iDevices.

Re: Running GUI Linux in a virtual machine on a Mac

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It uses qemu.

Pretty sure I downloaded it and it let me set up a machine with or without qemu. Asked if i want virtualization or emulation.

The one I set up uses virtualization and definitely still uses qemu.

If you're seeing it use the hypervisor framework, it's possible that's changed since I set mine up and they just haven't seen fit to advertise that change on the web site, which still claims that it's "based on qemu."

(I'm using UTM 3.2.4... just because that's what I used to migrate my data from my old linux laptop to my new mac, and I haven't needed to change it.)

Re: Running GUI Linux in a virtual machine on a Mac

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um… GNU’s license is incompatible with Apple; that’s why Bash 3.2 is the current version for macOS.

Not incompatible, except with Apple's business model; Apple has been removing GNU software for more than a decade: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3559990

I should have been more clear: Apple has and continues to ship GPLv2 software but not GPLv3, since one interpretation of that license is that by including GPLv3 code in macOS, they’d be required to make the source code to at least the entire Darwin (the Unix layer underneath the GUI) operating system available, which is something they probably don’t want to do.

Which is why GNU’s core utilities don’t ship in macOS and why the outdated Bash 3.2 (GPLv2) still ships in the latest versions of macOS.

It’s also why ZSH, which uses a variation of the MIT license, is now the default shell when Bash was the default for many years.

Re: Running GUI Linux in a virtual machine on a Mac

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had the opportunity to do this when introducing the M-series Macs, because under the hood those work very similarly to iPhones and iPads. They could've done a direct copy-paste from the iDevice boot process and called it a day, but they didn't… they went out of their way to develop support for booting third-party operating systems, complete with a path for painless long term support with the flexibility of allow…

> They had the opportunity to do this when introducing the M-series Macs No, they didn't because a Mac computer that is fully locked like the iDevices wouldn't have been popular and would have meant a lot of bad publicity for the M1 mac desktops. Apple Silicon M1 / M2 macs can only run crippled versions of other OSes and macOS is being slowly converted to be more and more like ios. It's the Boiling Frog strategy - ht…

What do you mean by “crippled”? As far as I can tell the only limiting factor on the capabilities of other OSes on Apple Silicon is the state of hardware support, which is marching forward at a brisk pace and it doesn’t look like there’s anything stopping third parties from fully leveraging the capabilities of that hardware.

Re: Running GUI Linux in a virtual machine on a Mac

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not incompatible, except with Apple's business model; Apple has been removing GNU software for more than a decade: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3559990

I should have been more clear: Apple has and continues to ship GPLv2 software but not GPLv3, since one interpretation of that license is that by including GPLv3 code in macOS, they’d be required to make the source code to at least the entire Darwin (the Unix layer underneath the GUI) operating system available, which is something they probably don’t want to do. Which is why GNU’s core utilities don’t ship in macOS an…

> Darwin (the Unix layer underneath the GUI) operating system available, which is something they probably don’t want to do.

Darwin is open source, and Apple did make Darwin available[1][2], but the issues are it takes some skill, experience, and understanding to put it all together and build it, and many parts have become closed source since Apple first released. Also, there are basically no drivers for anything.

At least two projects derived from it, making it far easier to install and boot, OpenDarwin and PureDarwin. PureDarwin[3] had a couple of bootable releases, but I haven't heard much about it since their last release years ago, but their site says they've been working on drivers and a modified XNU to work without Apple's closed source portions.

IIRC, way back during the end of PPC, I was able to install and boot Darwin CLI on an x86 (probably 486 or Pentium something), but without any drivers, I couldn't do anything with it other than boot it and explore the filesystem. I couldn't even get it to network, so I couldn't install MacPorts, lost interest pretty quickly. It looked exactly like booting Mac OS X without Quartz, Apple's pretty command line.

But the PureDarwin release had X11, and by the screenshots, looked pretty neat. I intended to try PureDarwin's Xmas release in a vm back in the late 2000s, but I was jerked around a lot back then with living arrangements and never got back around to it. PureDarwin's later releases had a lot more functionality.

[1] https://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-2050.18.24/

[2] https://opensource.apple.com/release/macos-10124.html

[3] http://www.puredarwin.org/

Re: Running GUI Linux in a virtual machine on a Mac

#150
post #146

I wonder why they would publish this when Asahi is already quite usable, and Intel macs can run Linux natively too Is it THAT much more convenient to do everything in a VM?

If you want to use Messages and Linux simultaneously, a VM is your only option, right?
Post reply on HN