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Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

content.events.ccc.de

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Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#81

Post by ciex »

black_puppydog wrote: post #41
UltimateEdge wrote: post #40

I wonder why the Congress takes place during the last few days of December. There aren't many travel options if you want to get back to your country before the new year.

It's traditionally and still a very DACH dominated event, for better or worse. Travel by regional/interregional trains around this time is perfectly fine, and it's a time where it's quite easy for a whole big community to synchronize for taking vacation. Remember that this is not the type of Congress where people go on paid time. There are no sponsorships and generally no commercial interest behind this event, so I t…

It’s a good chance to use your Bildungsurlaub allowance (education vacation?) where for 5 days a year you are being paid by your employer for educating yourself in a way of your choosing. C3 is recognized for that program almost everywhere in Germany.

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#82

Post by throw827474737 »

super256 wrote: post #60
black_puppydog wrote: post #45

Funny to see a bunch of (quickly flagged) comments that show a clear misunderstanding of what the German hacker scene is and wants. Besides not being a monolith and this being amenable to labeling as such, it's still in many parts different from many other hacker scenes. The CCC has always had the ambition (and backing credentials/skills) to be a political movement as much as a technological one. In fact that's the o…

I left the CCC in 2020 after C3 crew decided that the cock.li mail-service is a fascist and started, escalated, and carried out an attack on its administrator Vincent Canfield [1]. Sorry, but throwing someone on the floor in front of the congress building for registering clearly sarcastic domains such as "hitler.rocks" and "nuke.africa" is just not what I understand under anti-facism. It's merely a power move for con…

> clearly sarcastic domains such as...

Not sure where that guy is from (and also dont want to judge the story at all),.. BUT there is not much like that here but one of the few and also by law forbidden taboos is this. With that, you are never clearly sarcastic, the opposite. No excuse, sorry.

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#83

Post by [deleted] »

aestetix wrote: post #77
super256 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I left the CCC in 2020 after C3 crew decided that the cock.li mail-service is a fascist and started, escalated, and carried out an attack on its administrator Vincent Canfield [1]. Sorry, but throwing someone on the floor in front of the congress building for registering clearly sarcastic domains such as "hitler.rocks" and "nuke.africa" is just not what I understand under anti-facism. It's merely a power move for con…

Where did the C3 crew say the service was fascist? As far as I understand, he showed up to Congress and did a Hitlergrüße (Nazi salute) to their security. In Germany that is illegal and arrestable, so he should actually be grateful they only kicked him out and did not call the police. Germany has very strict laws against video-recording people without their consent, so creating this video would be considered another…

[deleted]

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#84

Post by sascha_sl »

super256 wrote: post #60
black_puppydog wrote: post #45

Funny to see a bunch of (quickly flagged) comments that show a clear misunderstanding of what the German hacker scene is and wants. Besides not being a monolith and this being amenable to labeling as such, it's still in many parts different from many other hacker scenes. The CCC has always had the ambition (and backing credentials/skills) to be a political movement as much as a technological one. In fact that's the o…

I left the CCC in 2020 after C3 crew decided that the cock.li mail-service is a fascist and started, escalated, and carried out an attack on its administrator Vincent Canfield [1]. Sorry, but throwing someone on the floor in front of the congress building for registering clearly sarcastic domains such as "hitler.rocks" and "nuke.africa" is just not what I understand under anti-facism. It's merely a power move for con…

As someone who has spent time on Vincent's mumble years ago, he is definitely at least fascist adjacent.

And his use of slurs is by no means ironic, unless you want to claim he is ironic 100% of the time he is online.

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#86

Post by super256 »

aestetix wrote: post #77
super256 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I left the CCC in 2020 after C3 crew decided that the cock.li mail-service is a fascist and started, escalated, and carried out an attack on its administrator Vincent Canfield [1]. Sorry, but throwing someone on the floor in front of the congress building for registering clearly sarcastic domains such as "hitler.rocks" and "nuke.africa" is just not what I understand under anti-facism. It's merely a power move for con…

Where did the C3 crew say the service was fascist? As far as I understand, he showed up to Congress and did a Hitlergrüße (Nazi salute) to their security. In Germany that is illegal and arrestable, so he should actually be grateful they only kicked him out and did not call the police. Germany has very strict laws against video-recording people without their consent, so creating this video would be considered another…

> As far as I understand, he showed up to Congress and did a Hitlergrüße (Nazi salute) to their security. In Germany that is illegal and arrestable, so he should actually be grateful they only kicked him out and did not call the police.

This is simply not true. Before the C3 took place, Michael required Vincent to remove all the unfunny stuff from his website to be able to register an assembly for C3. However, Vincent did not agree to this, so he didn't register an assembly.

Then, during C3 on the 27th Dec, Vincent sent out a tweet that he's on C3, and so he and a few users of his email service met informally, but not as a cock.li assembly. It wasn't a huge crowd, I think like 5 people(?).

Michael then approached Vincent and said, that he wouldn't be allowed on the premise. Vincent then offered to take it to the Arbitration Board, which was specifically set up for situations like this: When someone experiences sexism/racism or discrimination of any kind, they should take it to the AB, where the awareness team tries to find a mutually agreeable solution. Michael didn't like this proposal and just told him to leave within the next 5 Minutes.

Apparently the short-haired girl, which was following Michael, did not want to wait 5 Minutes. That's when Vincent sent an audio recording to himself and switched to video recording. That's what you see in the first post I made.

The phone which Vincent used for recording was seized by security. However, confiscating cameras or camera phones is the sole responsibility of the police or the bailiff. Stewards and security guards are not allowed to do that.

> Germany has very strict laws against video-recording people without their consent, so creating this video would be considered another crime.

This isn't true either. You are allowed to record if you have legitimate interests in recording the current event, e.g. when a friend gets knocked down to the floor by other people, as the others would be free to leave the scene if they really wanted to. However, you are not allowed to release the footage to a public forum without the consent of the party that displays the helplessness.

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#87

Post by _cenw »

throw827474737 wrote: post #82
super256 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I left the CCC in 2020 after C3 crew decided that the cock.li mail-service is a fascist and started, escalated, and carried out an attack on its administrator Vincent Canfield [1]. Sorry, but throwing someone on the floor in front of the congress building for registering clearly sarcastic domains such as "hitler.rocks" and "nuke.africa" is just not what I understand under anti-facism. It's merely a power move for con…

> clearly sarcastic domains such as... Not sure where that guy is from (and also dont want to judge the story at all),.. BUT there is not much like that here but one of the few and also by law forbidden taboos is this. With that, you are never clearly sarcastic, the opposite. No excuse, sorry.

He is from the US, but lives in Romania.

For a long time, cock.li was hosted on Hetzner - until a bunch of bomb threats to schools in the US originated there. There was a fun little bit of government overreach involved too, since the german police seized the server twice - the first time they only took a single drive (probably as advised by Hetzner staff), and then, a week later, they demanded the entire server. It's pretty much implied that this was at the behest of US authorities, since a related FOIA request at the german feds was denied with "may cause adverse affects on international relations"

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#88

Post by super256 »

glogla wrote: post #70
super256 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I left the CCC in 2020 after C3 crew decided that the cock.li mail-service is a fascist and started, escalated, and carried out an attack on its administrator Vincent Canfield [1]. Sorry, but throwing someone on the floor in front of the congress building for registering clearly sarcastic domains such as "hitler.rocks" and "nuke.africa" is just not what I understand under anti-facism. It's merely a power move for con…

In just this post, you 1) Disingenuously frame someone being removed from premises where they are not welcome as "decided that X is a fascist and started, escalated, and carried out an attack". 2) Care more about someone who runs services on "hitler.rocks", "nuke.africa" and "nigge.rs" than you care about CCC being kind and welcoming place for everyone - for example, people who might not want to be called "niggers".…

> 1) Disingenuously frame someone being removed from premises where they are not welcome as "decided that X is a fascist and started, escalated, and carried out an attack".

No, this is — to my best knowledge — what happened.

> 2) Care more about someone who runs services on "hitler.rocks", "nuke.africa" and "nigge.rs" than you care about CCC being kind and welcoming place for everyone - for example, people who might not want to be called "niggers".

No one is calling anyone like this. But I see that it's intentionally provoking through obscenity. However, it is not possible to determine the boundary between “obscene” and “non-obscene” according to factual characteristics, and everything about this is subjective:

For some people graffiti is obscene, for some people kissing in public is obscene, for some people name-calling is obscene, and some aren't concerned with whatever you do.

In fact, we can see this in this discussion: I see that the domain is using the TLD to break a taboo and to get attention, but I don't see an insult in this as it's not redirected at anyone harmfully. It's all up to the reader's interpretation.

> 3) Use "it's just joke bro" as a defense for despicable behavior.

I would agree with you, if he would actually make differences between race or sex. But he doesn't.

In the end it's just a vanity domain, which to me is funny for the reason that so many people get hung up on it, which is most likely the desired effect.

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#89

Post by oxnrtr »

super256 wrote: post #86
aestetix wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did the C3 crew say the service was fascist? As far as I understand, he showed up to Congress and did a Hitlergrüße (Nazi salute) to their security. In Germany that is illegal and arrestable, so he should actually be grateful they only kicked him out and did not call the police. Germany has very strict laws against video-recording people without their consent, so creating this video would be considered another…

> As far as I understand, he showed up to Congress and did a Hitlergrüße (Nazi salute) to their security. In Germany that is illegal and arrestable, so he should actually be grateful they only kicked him out and did not call the police. This is simply not true. Before the C3 took place, Michael required Vincent to remove all the unfunny stuff from his website to be able to register an assembly for C3. However, Vincen…

Have you ever re-read your posts and realized how incredibly whiny this all sounds?

He tried to start shit and got thrown out. Stop whining.

Re: Call for Participation to Chaos Computer Club’s 37C3

#90

Post by super256 »

oxnrtr wrote: post #89
super256 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As far as I understand, he showed up to Congress and did a Hitlergrüße (Nazi salute) to their security. In Germany that is illegal and arrestable, so he should actually be grateful they only kicked him out and did not call the police. This is simply not true. Before the C3 took place, Michael required Vincent to remove all the unfunny stuff from his website to be able to register an assembly for C3. However, Vincen…

Have you ever re-read your posts and realized how incredibly whiny this all sounds? He tried to start shit and got thrown out. Stop whining.

I just find it sad that some people come up to this thread and straight up lie bc someone sent a link to here on IRC.
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