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Take a break

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Re: Take a break

#91

Post by brudgers »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #8

May I suggest a purely rational, evidence based take? The trap is your belief in a linear relationship between effort and outcome. Working harder and longer produces more productivity, right? That's false. As you say so yourself, your memory goes to shit. It's not just a law of diminishing returns. For coders, past a certain point, exhaustion leads you to start undoing your work. You are into negative productivity. I…

Working productively all night is a skill.

Just like avoiding meetings.

Just like achieving flow state.

The all-nighter that results from not-wanting to stop the creative process is not the all-nighter of the deadline death march.

Deltas between effort and outcome aren't negative in the flow-state. The are positive and non-linear..that's what flow-state is.

And the hard part is that grinding out metaphorical-all-nighters might be the best way to practice achieving and maintaining flow-state. At least to the degree learning to achieve flow state directly correlates to butt-in-the-seat time.

Which it does.

Re: Take a break

#92

Post by yCombLinks »

almost_usual wrote: post #66
nik736 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure about that. There are always tasks that can be done without having to think too much about it. The more time you put into them, the more of those small tasks you can complete. I wouldn't start building new features or change important parts of the code base after a 10hr day for sure, but there is a lot more that can't "break everything".

The problem is there will always be small tasks and those tasks might actually delay longer more important tasks. At some point you need to prioritize what is most important with your time. If you’re always grinding small tasks to make time for a larger task that too will burn you out.

The point is there are lots of small tasks you can do when you're brain isn't capable of doing focused work. Certain work requires careful thinking and can only be done when you're in top shape to be done effectively. Prioritize that work when you're energetic, etc. Do the small tasks when you're not so you're high quality time get's used well.

Re: Take a break

#93

Post by tharkun__ »

ip26 wrote: post #81
Silverback_VII wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think it is impossible to understand how much additional stress and anxiety being a parent of small children bring without being in that position. I have to disagree and I'm a father. I think it's exactly like in the book "the happiness advantage", some people will see the positive and use it as possibility to grow and to get more productive. On the other hand, People who focus on the negative and didn't learn to…

Good luck “looking on the bright side” when you’ve had less than four hours sleep every night for the past week. Some kids are just angels and sleep like champs, others fight every inch of the way and wake up constantly. As a result, different parents come up with wildly different “truths of parenting”.

This is true but also dependent on your "other circumstances". The US is decidedly a bad place to be a parent from what I can tell. Parental leave, even when graciously granted by the company is short and frowned upon nevertheless (generalizing here of course but this seems to be the overall majority of cases).

Taking a few months of parental leave right at the beginning was such a big help. All of the above becomes so much easier when you simply do not have to worry about work. Baby is not sleeping from 2a.m. to 5a.m. every night? Or only sleeps when having body contact, such as sleeping on your chest? So what! Stay up, do some chores, play some computer games or watch a movie w/ baby on your chest (yes there's ways where you do not have to worry about baby falling off and you have both hands available, so you definitely can get lots of computer gaming done in that time ;)). Go to bed at 5a.m. knowing you don't have to get up to get to work and be expected to have a fresh mind. You just fall asleep, exhausted and wake up for lunch time and it's fine! It just totally takes the extra stress out of that time (of course you're still gonna be tired from having your sleep rhythms effed up and such and sometimes baby just doesn't want to sleep at all, no matter what you do etc.) and I believe that can make for better parenting overall. Back in the day some of that would've been taken care of by living w/ your parents or in-laws.

Re: Take a break

#94

Post by [deleted] »

CalRobert wrote: post #41
greymalik wrote: post #14

> small hurdles spike my anxiety, my anger flares at the slightest confrontation, I notice fewer jokes, fewer attempts on my part to make people laugh. My memory goes to all hell too and I can’t seem to concentrate on prolonged amounts of anything. Books fall off my radar, I stop listening to music. My phone is in my hand at all times, scrolly-anxiety-inducing apps become impossible to avoid. This describes me perfec…

I wish I'd understood the degree to which small children destroy you. The amount of focus time you get falls by 90%+, you sleep horribly every night without fail, and you spend every quiet moment waiting for one of them to start screaming because they found some new and ingenious way to hurt themself. Maybe a lot of that was having a 1-3 and 3-5 year old wfh during covid, but I feel like I'm broken ever since.

[deleted]

Re: Take a break

#95

Post by ip26 »

tharkun__ wrote: post #93
ip26 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck “looking on the bright side” when you’ve had less than four hours sleep every night for the past week. Some kids are just angels and sleep like champs, others fight every inch of the way and wake up constantly. As a result, different parents come up with wildly different “truths of parenting”.

This is true but also dependent on your "other circumstances". The US is decidedly a bad place to be a parent from what I can tell. Parental leave, even when graciously granted by the company is short and frowned upon nevertheless (generalizing here of course but this seems to be the overall majority of cases). Taking a few months of parental leave right at the beginning was such a big help. All of the above becomes…

Go to bed at 5a.m. knowing you don't have to get up to get to work and be expected to have a fresh mind. You just fall asleep, exhausted and wake up for lunch time and it's fine!

Baby wakes up at 6:30am like clockwork. Your move, parent.

Not to be a stick in the mud. You’re of course right that having additional responsibilities further increases the stress & difficulty.

Re: Take a break

#96

Post by goodpoint »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #8

May I suggest a purely rational, evidence based take? The trap is your belief in a linear relationship between effort and outcome. Working harder and longer produces more productivity, right? That's false. As you say so yourself, your memory goes to shit. It's not just a law of diminishing returns. For coders, past a certain point, exhaustion leads you to start undoing your work. You are into negative productivity. I…

> probably based in the emotional drives of fear or pride

More likely guilt, due to social expectations around productivity. Many senior developers experience impostor syndrome.

The amount of posts around productivity hacks and tricks on HN is telling.

Re: Take a break

#97

Post by goodpoint »

brudgers wrote: post #91
nonrandomstring wrote: post #8

May I suggest a purely rational, evidence based take? The trap is your belief in a linear relationship between effort and outcome. Working harder and longer produces more productivity, right? That's false. As you say so yourself, your memory goes to shit. It's not just a law of diminishing returns. For coders, past a certain point, exhaustion leads you to start undoing your work. You are into negative productivity. I…

Working productively all night is a skill. Just like avoiding meetings. Just like achieving flow state. The all-nighter that results from not-wanting to stop the creative process is not the all-nighter of the deadline death march. Deltas between effort and outcome aren't negative in the flow-state. The are positive and non-linear..that's what flow-state is. And the hard part is that grinding out metaphorical-all-nigh…

The parent is clearly talking about death marches, not enjoying flow state.

Re: Take a break

#98

Post by kieselguhr_kid »

CalRobert wrote: post #41
greymalik wrote: post #14

> small hurdles spike my anxiety, my anger flares at the slightest confrontation, I notice fewer jokes, fewer attempts on my part to make people laugh. My memory goes to all hell too and I can’t seem to concentrate on prolonged amounts of anything. Books fall off my radar, I stop listening to music. My phone is in my hand at all times, scrolly-anxiety-inducing apps become impossible to avoid. This describes me perfec…

I wish I'd understood the degree to which small children destroy you. The amount of focus time you get falls by 90%+, you sleep horribly every night without fail, and you spend every quiet moment waiting for one of them to start screaming because they found some new and ingenious way to hurt themself. Maybe a lot of that was having a 1-3 and 3-5 year old wfh during covid, but I feel like I'm broken ever since.

Before I had kids, whenever I was tired at work, someone would say "you think that's bad? Wait til you have kids." I would roll my eyes and assume it was either hyperbole or that it was a mildly more intense version of what I felt. Of course, you know that I was wrong, and after 96 hours with a newborn I knew I was wrong too.

I compare the exhaustion you feel from parenting tothe effects of psychedelic drugs. It's pervasive, life altering, and impossible to explain to someone who hasn't experienced it.

Re: Take a break

#99

Post by goodpoint »

gubernation wrote: post #35
nonrandomstring wrote: post #8

May I suggest a purely rational, evidence based take? The trap is your belief in a linear relationship between effort and outcome. Working harder and longer produces more productivity, right? That's false. As you say so yourself, your memory goes to shit. It's not just a law of diminishing returns. For coders, past a certain point, exhaustion leads you to start undoing your work. You are into negative productivity. I…

So the solution is to figure out how to put in long hours effectively, not to throw it away. That's an excuse. Do you want to be rich, or not?

Nobody gets rich by doing a lot of work.

You get rich by taking the value generated by other people's work.

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