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Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

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Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#241

Post by rchaud »

Seeing as how this article didn't even link to the court filing, here you go:

https://regmedia.co.uk/2022/10/04/prejean_infosys_complaint....

Excerpt:

> 85. After approximately a month, Plaintiff had a complete partner list and began taking meetings with partners regarding their hiring needs.

> 86. Consistently in these meeting with Plaintiff, partners talked openly about their hiring prejudices and discrimination preferences. 87. These illegal criteria were more important to partners than anything else. 88. Plaintiff consistently heard from at least a dozen partners, to her shock, that they preferred not to hire additional consultants of Indian national origin, that they wanted women without children at home, and candidates not approaching 50.

> 89. These preferences were open and notorious and seemed to be the company culture.

> 90. In each of her meetings Plaintiff apprised the partners that they were advancing illegal criteria and that she would not act on them.

> 91. Among the partners who endorsed illegal criteria were Defendants Kurtz and Albright, who expressly stated them to Plaintiff.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#242

Post by ElCheapo »

aliqot wrote: post #208
ElCheapo wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Im not a bot.

I already told you this is not what I asked. Your replies are all over the place and I sincerely am not understanding them.

[EDIT]

wow, you edited your whole long form reply and just replaced it with "I'm not a bot"? That's such a misleading and dishonest thing to do for everyone reading these posts from now onwards

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#243

Post by wongarsu »

gsich wrote: post #143
notart666 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English is the simplest Latin based language. This has nothing to do with pronunciation but not even knowing basic words. Or how to communicate. Only a small percentage of Indians speak English and most statistics on it are heavily inflated. The Indian English Education system is the same one the Japanese and Koreans use. And they don't know English. The reality is it's like if you learned Spanish in middle school to…

Pronunciation and orthography vary in many cases, not simple at all. Unless you already come from a germanic language, then it's relatively easy.

English grammar is very simple to learn if you come from a Germanic language, but I think English pronunciation and orthography is a mystery to all of us.

Even if you know the origins of the word, you still have to guess: facade is pronounced correctly, but the pronunciation of Uranus was apparently left up to a 5-year old to decide. Kindergarten and doppelganger are pronounced the German way, angst and flak aren't. The non-loanwords are somehow as inconsistent, after pronunciation changed but the spelling was preserved (and the other way around). For an unknown word you can come up with reasonable guesses, but they might be totally wrong. The only thing that makes us good English speakers is extensive exposure to English media.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#244

Post by maest »

notart666 wrote: post #109
philliphaydon wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand the English thing. I lived in Singapore for 10 years and have heard so many words pronounced wrong. To give an example one of my ex coworkers used to say the word swap as sw-app. Another one said return as ret-urn. I did ask them and they said they are taught phonics and so they just say the words how they are written. English is such a turd language. We have so many rules and then all those rules…

English is the simplest Latin based language. This has nothing to do with pronunciation but not even knowing basic words. Or how to communicate. Only a small percentage of Indians speak English and most statistics on it are heavily inflated. The Indian English Education system is the same one the Japanese and Koreans use. And they don't know English. The reality is it's like if you learned Spanish in middle school to…

> English is the simplest Latin based language.

It's not a Latin-based language (French, Italian, Spanish etc are Latin-based languages).

It's not clear how you measure simplicity, but, in terms of phonetics, English is quite the nightmare as the link between the spelling and the pronunciation is often determined by the history of the word, rather than by a clear set of phonetical rules.

So, at least by that measure, English is far from being the simplest.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#245

Post by mardifoufs »

NaughtyShiba wrote: post #80
mkl95 wrote: post #53

I was a consultant for an American company that also hired dozens of cheap consultants from development countries. Mostly India but also neighbouring countries and some Eastern European countries. Indians were by far the hardest to work with. They ghosted women systematically which was a nightmare for our project manager. They also lied shamelessly about their qualifications which led to absurd situations. The proble…

Eastern Europe ain’t developing countries…

Depends where. For example Ukraine (before the war) had a similar gdp per capita to my home country, Morocco, which is definitely a developing country. Belarus is richer, but not by much. I guess those two countries are more of an exception now though.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#246

Post by notart666 »

petilon wrote: post #167
voidwtf wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he might be implying some issues related to the caste system. It’s been discussed on HN before about how some members of the upper caste may not treat other team members from a lower caste appropriately. Despite no longer being in India, and despite that behavior not being acceptable in the host country.

> It’s been discussed on HN before... Yes, it has been used on HN as a bludgeon but the reality is a little different! Yes, the ancient caste system still exists in India. But today it is only relevant when it comes to politics and marriage. Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/opinion/sunday/caste-is-no...

The fact you believe it to only be relevant in marriage and politics goes to show the naivety of your understanding of how prevalent this 2000+ year caste system is. I'd go as far as calling it the oldest system of systemic slavery in the world. The fact it plays such a level to this day in the modern lives of individuals shows how the Indians have normalized it in their society and often directly bring it into our own. It even goes as far as impacting children, and starts from their. Who they know. Who they can interact with. Where they're accepted. At every step impacting and controlling their lives. To claim what you have said to trivialize it is kind of shocking to me.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#247

Post by Morgawr »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #161
gilbetron wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people are running a marathon, half way through it is discovered half of them had been given weighted shoes that made them run significantly slower. The organizers and racers agree this is wrong and unfair, and so they make sure everyone has correct shoes for the rest of the race. Yet those half of the racers that had weighted shoes are several miles behind the rest. What would you suggest be done?

Okay, let's play the silly analogies game. Some people from group A enjoy running and can run fast, therefore join marathons and are good at it. Some people from group B enjoy playing table tennis and have great reflexes, therefore join table tennis tournaments and are good at it. Some other people realise that marathons have way more A people than B people, and since marathons are prestigious they force equal ratio…

What if some people that would usually be in the group that enjoy playing table tennis realize they actually want to run a marathon and they find out that most marathon gear is only built to help group A run better? What if there were shops that sold marathon gear but there is limited supply and since 9 out of 10 customers are group A people then those few group B that would like to buy the gear cannot because it's always sold out? What if I specifically started selling gear saying that 50% of it was reserved for group B to help them participate in marathon and that I cannot sell it to group A people? That's clearly discrimination, isn't it? And yet...

The problem is that there's so many variables in this equation that it can't simply be resolved in a simple "racism bad" or "discrimination bad" and "if they really wanted to they could but in reality they don't want to". It's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#248

Post by NeverFade »

NoraCodes wrote: post #214
NeverFade wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure that will be a great comfort to the Asian kid who was born in poverty, got bullied in school, struggled all his life to achieve the grades and stats to qualify for a top school, then got rejected in favor of a rich black American kid, since he was born with the wrong skin color.

Hmm, this is not a good criticism of affirmative action programs. A child from a rich family, of whatever race, is far more likely to be able to attend the college of their (or their parents') choice, based on a wide array of factors. This is mitigated somewhat by federal and institutional need-based and merit-based aid, but I don't think it's really supportable to say that it's exacerbated by affirmative action. If…

> I think you made this situation up without considering other factors because you have an ideological agenda.

> Arcidiacono shows that, after narrowing down applicants to those with the strongest objective academic qualifications, Asian Americans were far more likely than blacks or Hispanics to receive a low personality score from admissions officers.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/06/harvar...

So we know for a fact that Asians received lower "personality" scores than blacks and hispanics, as a racial group and regardless of their financial status, and these lower "personality" scores were used as a basis to reject Asians and accept black and hispanic candidates.

TL;DR we know for a fact this exact thing is happening.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#249

Post by NeverFade »

nerdponx wrote: post #191
NeverFade wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure that will be a great comfort to the Asian kid who was born in poverty, got bullied in school, struggled all his life to achieve the grades and stats to qualify for a top school, then got rejected in favor of a rich black American kid, since he was born with the wrong skin color.

Like I said, there are plenty of valid arguments against it. But they aren't equivalent , which is what I was specifically responding to.

It's racism with better excuses.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#250

Post by aliqot »

secondcoming wrote: post #230
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So 'reverse discrimination', when applied correctly, can help to break those structural inequities. Can the irish apply to get priviliges? Or is the only factor here the persons skin color?

I'm Irish and am pretty sure I'm 'BAME'. The Poles definitely are. I don't know if Italians / Spanish are 'LatinX' or not.

We Latinos don't say LatinX
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