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Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

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Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#181

Post by Morgawr »

chrischattin wrote: post #146
Morgawr wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what they are suggesting. That's what you came up with as a solution for the problem which they presented. You're arguing against your own conclusion.

The implication is obvious from the context of the discussion. Don’t be disingenuous.

The implication might be obvious because that might be the most immediate solution to an evident problem. Just because the analogy works and you don't like the (obvious) solution it doesn't mean we should throw out the baby with the bathwater in the process.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#182

Post by pid_0 »

mattigames wrote: post #162
sephlietz wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan's population is something like 98% Japanese ethnicity.

And you think racism has nothing to do with that being the case? Meaning why do you think a country as successful as Japan is not filled with a diversity of immigrants from other races?

No post body was provided.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#183

Post by NoraCodes »

huggingrear wrote: post #107
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get ahead of yourself there. Racial preferences are very common around the world. It becomes part of self-worth to value one's cohort above those that are seen as opressive. Such as the ubiquitous western culture in media. Anyway, the melting pot of the USA has created a dialog about race that may be missing or very small elsewhere. Witness the apparent race-tone-deaf attitudes in Japanese mainstream, where bei…

Japan is 98% ethnically homogenous, with the remaining 2% primarily consisting of Koreans and Chinese. I don't see why Japan would have any need for a discussion on 'race'.

Japan is 98% ethnically homogeneous in part because of an immigration system that keeps foreigners from immigrating for work and in part because of lots of systemic racism - different from that in, say, the US, but still systemic - in Japanese society. It's not magic or an accident of history, it's due to social factors.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#184

Post by antiterra »

gilbetron wrote: post #44
aliqot wrote: post #4

How does this differ from companies and elected officials openly saying right now that females and minorities are preferred for X position, like vice president of USA or CEO of Reddit?

Some people are running a marathon, half way through it is discovered half of them had been given weighted shoes that made them run significantly slower. The organizers and racers agree this is wrong and unfair, and so they make sure everyone has correct shoes for the rest of the race. Yet those half of the racers that had weighted shoes are several miles behind the rest. What would you suggest be done?

Imagine shoe weight is first randomized among all racers. Then, a second round of additional random weight is given to one half of the runners. Now, the problem is individualist vs collectivist.

From a collectivist view, adding a time penalty that corresponds to which half the runner was in looks good.

From an individualist view, they note some runners who didn’t receive extra weight still got a debilitating amount of weight from the first distribution. They note that some of the extra-weight runners are actually positioned well at the front. Accordingly, their mind reels at the idea of a time penalty applied based on which half the runner was in. “How is it first group runner’s fault that someone else added weight to the second group?” they wonder.

I do understand the individualist objections, but I also don’t accept that doing nothing is the most fair approach.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#185

Post by broken_glass »

buzzwords wrote: post #77
pjc50 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pool is not of a fixed size, and there's no evidence of women being paid a premium to fulfil a quota. Conversely, there's plenty of evidence of both individual and systematic discrimination against women candidates and women "thought leaders" in tech.

Oh wow, really? So the women in tech is a growing pool? Enough to stop companies paying premium to fulfil quotas?

"To stop" - sounds like you are quiet sure that they are paying females more. From experience - no, there is no bonus, companies I know have flat basic rates for juniors, and raises based on company situation/personal achievements (or lack of them).

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#186

Post by ElCheapo »

aliqot wrote: post #179
ElCheapo wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You told me human endeavors in which "diversity" (which again, means nothing) fosters innovation. But that wasn't my question. I asked what kind of diversity fosters innovation, not what kind of innovation is fostered by diversity

To err on the side of being as polite as possible: In some grim scenarios, diversity led to certain situations that gave rise to big innovations.

No post body was provided.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#187

Post by alex028502 »

gsich wrote: post #143
notart666 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English is the simplest Latin based language. This has nothing to do with pronunciation but not even knowing basic words. Or how to communicate. Only a small percentage of Indians speak English and most statistics on it are heavily inflated. The Indian English Education system is the same one the Japanese and Koreans use. And they don't know English. The reality is it's like if you learned Spanish in middle school to…

Pronunciation and orthography vary in many cases, not simple at all. Unless you already come from a germanic language, then it's relatively easy.

Coming from another Germanic language helps you deal with pronunciation and orthography varying in English?

What's the relationship?

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#188

Post by sk0g »

29athrowaway wrote: post #110
notart666 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of them just can't speak English correctly. Only a small percentage of the individuals who speak English at a proficient level of those who do, they predominately come from very wealthy upper caste families and now you have a new problem. And well. When it comes to caste, many Indians simply believe it to not exist anymore in India because of how deeply engrained it is in their social classes they never notice i…

English is an official language over there, but it is spoken differently.

Hindi in the cities is interesting, it can turn into a 50-50 blend of English and Hindi, with English used for most nouns, and sentences strung together with Hindi otherwise.

Having said that, actual conversational skills in English were lacking even in Delhi. You can throw out words and hope there's enough of a shared vocabulary to get ideas across, but the majority of people aren't fluent, or even conversational in it. I've heard the Southern part is somewhat better though, as Hindi is less pervasive, and English is used more often as a second language if you travel out of state and the likes.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#189

Post by Ekaros »

blockinator wrote: post #118
k__ wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diversity can foster innovation.

The commonly held definition of 'diversity' needs more diversity - to mean more than skin color quotas.

Maybe they should do something geographical. Let's say hire a person per country and then start again. You know building actually distributed and diverse teams.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#190

Post by bkav »

dominotw wrote: post #14

> and candidates aged 50 or above. Ageism is so bad they didn't even bother include the complete sentence in the headline. My main 'career goal' at the moment is find an exit path out of software development. Nothing else really matters. Its now or never.

What about federal jobs? The pay is definitely lower but it comes with amazing health insurance, you can stay for the rest of your career, move wherever you want, & they can’t really afford to be ageist—they don’t have enough candidates.
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