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Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

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Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#141

Post by barbecue_sauce »

thrown_22 wrote: post #39
padolsey wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Not to mince words, as others frequently do, but that's basically what's happening. The alterntive, so-called "pure meritocracy", is a farce because the implied implicit "merit" is, by the very nature of the systemic inequalities that exist, unequally distributed. And merit is transferred down the generations. Privilege begets privilege. Etc. This is the issue that we are rightfully trying to counter. It is righ…

People shit on meritocracy until the planes start falling out of the sky and we're murdering sparrows for being capitalist saboteurs.

Like the Boeing 737 MAX?

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#142

Post by [deleted] »

notart666 wrote: post #109
philliphaydon wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand the English thing. I lived in Singapore for 10 years and have heard so many words pronounced wrong. To give an example one of my ex coworkers used to say the word swap as sw-app. Another one said return as ret-urn. I did ask them and they said they are taught phonics and so they just say the words how they are written. English is such a turd language. We have so many rules and then all those rules…

English is the simplest Latin based language. This has nothing to do with pronunciation but not even knowing basic words. Or how to communicate. Only a small percentage of Indians speak English and most statistics on it are heavily inflated. The Indian English Education system is the same one the Japanese and Koreans use. And they don't know English. The reality is it's like if you learned Spanish in middle school to…

[deleted]

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#143

Post by gsich »

notart666 wrote: post #109
philliphaydon wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand the English thing. I lived in Singapore for 10 years and have heard so many words pronounced wrong. To give an example one of my ex coworkers used to say the word swap as sw-app. Another one said return as ret-urn. I did ask them and they said they are taught phonics and so they just say the words how they are written. English is such a turd language. We have so many rules and then all those rules…

English is the simplest Latin based language. This has nothing to do with pronunciation but not even knowing basic words. Or how to communicate. Only a small percentage of Indians speak English and most statistics on it are heavily inflated. The Indian English Education system is the same one the Japanese and Koreans use. And they don't know English. The reality is it's like if you learned Spanish in middle school to…

Pronunciation and orthography vary in many cases, not simple at all. Unless you already come from a germanic language, then it's relatively easy.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#144

Post by voidwtf »

azangru wrote: post #126
notart666 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of them just can't speak English correctly. Only a small percentage of the individuals who speak English at a proficient level of those who do, they predominately come from very wealthy upper caste families and now you have a new problem. And well. When it comes to caste, many Indians simply believe it to not exist anymore in India because of how deeply engrained it is in their social classes they never notice i…

> Many of them just can't speak English correctly. Only a small percentage of the individuals who speak English at a proficient level of those who do, they predominately come from very wealthy upper caste families and now you have a new problem. There is something very confusing to me in this paragraph. You put forth as a premise (at least if I am understanding the logic of the paragraph correctly) that fluency in En…

I think he might be implying some issues related to the caste system. It’s been discussed on HN before about how some members of the upper caste may not treat other team members from a lower caste appropriately. Despite no longer being in India, and despite that behavior not being acceptable in the host country.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#145

Post by JoeAltmaier »

huggingrear wrote: post #107
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get ahead of yourself there. Racial preferences are very common around the world. It becomes part of self-worth to value one's cohort above those that are seen as opressive. Such as the ubiquitous western culture in media. Anyway, the melting pot of the USA has created a dialog about race that may be missing or very small elsewhere. Witness the apparent race-tone-deaf attitudes in Japanese mainstream, where bei…

Japan is 98% ethnically homogenous, with the remaining 2% primarily consisting of Koreans and Chinese. I don't see why Japan would have any need for a discussion on 'race'.

So they just continue with laughable racist movies and media, and get a pass? Ok, whatever.

Or do you mean, it makes sense that they are the way they are? I agree.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#146

Post by chrischattin »

Morgawr wrote: post #121
chrischattin wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad analogy. That’s like suggesting we give racers in the next race an advantage because of what happened in the current race, which creates obvious unfair outcomes.

That's not what they are suggesting. That's what you came up with as a solution for the problem which they presented. You're arguing against your own conclusion.

The implication is obvious from the context of the discussion. Don’t be disingenuous.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#147

Post by thebigjewbowski »

azangru wrote: post #126
notart666 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of them just can't speak English correctly. Only a small percentage of the individuals who speak English at a proficient level of those who do, they predominately come from very wealthy upper caste families and now you have a new problem. And well. When it comes to caste, many Indians simply believe it to not exist anymore in India because of how deeply engrained it is in their social classes they never notice i…

> Many of them just can't speak English correctly. Only a small percentage of the individuals who speak English at a proficient level of those who do, they predominately come from very wealthy upper caste families and now you have a new problem. There is something very confusing to me in this paragraph. You put forth as a premise (at least if I am understanding the logic of the paragraph correctly) that fluency in En…

I assume that he meant they are well educated, skilled and thusly won’t be working for dirt cheap as they’d have better options.

He said the problem isn’t with hiring Indians, it is with cheap labor.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#148

Post by blockinator »

padolsey wrote: post #25
newsclues wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both are discriminatory, but one is virtuous and the other is bad?

Yes. Not to mince words, as others frequently do, but that's basically what's happening. The alterntive, so-called "pure meritocracy", is a farce because the implied implicit "merit" is, by the very nature of the systemic inequalities that exist, unequally distributed. And merit is transferred down the generations. Privilege begets privilege. Etc. This is the issue that we are rightfully trying to counter. It is righ…

>> Yes, to be utterly semantic, it is discriminatory. I don't know how this sits with me, but it is technically true. But, whether it sits well or not, it is virtually impossible to fiddle ourselves out of this quagmire of inequality without taking proactive _opposite_ steps.

I think there are additional externalities that need to be considered. For example, some of these discriminatory policies are going to cause strife, hate, and resentment, etc. in the people who need to be discriminated against. I think there may be unintended consequences that we're only beginning to see.

Discrimination causes problems that can take a long time to emerge and a long time to address. We're STILL seeing the effects of this on many minority groups - but the solution IMO isn't to do it all over again.

It feels BAD to be discriminated against.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#149

Post by yrgulation »

webmobdev wrote: post #136
yrgulation wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting but i dont agree with any justification for racism. Be it against americans, indians, or others. Race has no place in any debate. We are what we are and we are all equal in that regard.

Nobody is justifying racism, just explaining identity politics that unconsciously makes us biased towards someone who shares similar values with us. It's more obvious in the USA as it is a multi-cultural country made of immigrants, who generally tend to feel insecure and thus tend to turn to their own community to feel more secure. Unfortunately this insecurity is often exploited by right-wing politicians and used by…

“It becomes part of self-worth to value one's cohort above those that are seen as opressive.”

Meaning that its ok to be racist against the race that is perceived as oppressive. I dont subscribe to that and it proves my point. There is a sense of “racial preference” and the justification is that comment above. I think an eye for an eye will make us all blind and it needs to stop. We really need to move beyond this nonsense.

Edit: I agree with your edited comment:

“Unfortunately this insecurity is often exploited by right-wing politicians and used by them to create an us-vs-them mentality that leads to things like racism and discrimination.”

But i dont agree that people should self segregate as that is another form of racism. This vicious circle needs to end.

However your comment also seems to prove my point. There is a sense of racism but it would seem to be defensive racism. Ie we stay away from them because they have something against us.

Am i correct in my understanding? Genuine question as i genuinely want to understand the topic.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#150

Post by troon-lover »

sephlietz wrote: post #101
booleandilemma wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diversity is only for white people. Look at the diversity on the board of Mitsubishi: https://www.mitsubishicorp.com/jp/en/about/bmembers/

Japan's population is something like 98% Japanese ethnicity.

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