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Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

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Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#71

Post by tsimionescu »

peteradio wrote: post #27
Drakim wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be a bad thing and still the best option you got, a lesser of two evils. I don't think anybody should lose out on a opportunity because some minority quota needs to be filled, but I also don't think minorities and discriminated groups should live in a perpetual self-reinforcing unhirability loop either.

What is the assumption here? Marginalized groups will be hired even if they aren't the better candidate? Doesn't that Peter-Principle them right out of the gate? Are we sure that this leads to better long term outcomes?

I am always amazed by this assumption that firms hire "the better candidate", absent DEI initiatives or such.

In reality, people often hire the one they like best - which often tends to naturally be someone who resembles themselves.

Not to mention, very very few companies and positions within those companies operate at a level where they will succeed or fail based on whether they have the best possible candidate. For the vast majority of jobs, a candidate has to be adequate, and you can easily find 10 adequate candidates for every position you want to fill.

It's just like hiring the best street sweeper in the world is not going to significantly impact your bottom line - most CRUD jobs aren't too different from that.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#72

Post by NayamAmarshe »

yrgulation wrote: post #56
anon23anon wrote: post #10

Wow - so Indian companies hires all Indians even in American offices. CEO gets caught on a hot mike saying they don't want to hire stupid Americans which forces said CEO to change hiring policy but they blunder it and tell HR not to hire Indian candidates which back fires.

Wow you are right he did say that. Had to google it to confirm. How is that not racist? And why is racism so prevalent among indians?

> And why is racism so prevalent among indians?

This statement almost seems ironic...

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#73

Post by notart666 »

mkl95 wrote: post #53

I was a consultant for an American company that also hired dozens of cheap consultants from development countries. Mostly India but also neighbouring countries and some Eastern European countries. Indians were by far the hardest to work with. They ghosted women systematically which was a nightmare for our project manager. They also lied shamelessly about their qualifications which led to absurd situations. The proble…

Many of them just can't speak English correctly. Only a small percentage of the individuals who speak English at a proficient level of those who do, they predominately come from very wealthy upper caste families and now you have a new problem. And well. When it comes to caste, many Indians simply believe it to not exist anymore in India because of how deeply engrained it is in their social classes they never notice it.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#74

Post by lizardking »

dendriti wrote: post #41
seper8 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't, but you can't discriminate against white men. /s

Folks, this is not difficult to understand unless you're deliberately being obtuse. There's legal and illegal discrimination. Some forms of legal discrimination do amount to discrimination against White people. When we say "Discrimination is wrong" we are almost always talking about illegal discrimination. Just crying out that "But.... but you said discrimination is wrong!" really isn't the 'argument' you think it is…

“Don’t you know we moved the goal posts?” Isn’t the argument you think it is

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#75

Post by peteradio »

azangru wrote: post #49
peteradio wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the assumption here? Marginalized groups will be hired even if they aren't the better candidate? Doesn't that Peter-Principle them right out of the gate? Are we sure that this leads to better long term outcomes?

> What is the assumption here? Marginalized groups will be hired even if they aren't the better candidate? If a person making hiring decisions says that the next candidate for such-and-such role should be a person from such-and-such group (a woman, a person of color, etc.), then the criterion of being the better candidate doesn't apply. Or, rather, it gets adjusted such that belonging in the desired group is included…

That is in interesting way to define "better candidate" being that it does not tie to the bottom line except unless there are explicit business incentives to discriminate.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#76

Post by aliqot »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #61
dendriti wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Folks, this is not difficult to understand unless you're deliberately being obtuse. There's legal and illegal discrimination. Some forms of legal discrimination do amount to discrimination against White people. When we say "Discrimination is wrong" we are almost always talking about illegal discrimination. Just crying out that "But.... but you said discrimination is wrong!" really isn't the 'argument' you think it is…

Many don’t even acknowledge that their policies are discriminatory. But it’s still a good argument to point out that discriminatory diversity policies are discriminatory. Because that forces those that advocate for them to lay out their justifications and also at what point the policy is no longer needed. I’m not against affirmative action where it makes sense, but it’s a heavy handed policy and as such needs very go…

Affirmative action is bigotry of low expectations by another name.

Imagine if I were a minority doctor who benefited from this, my patients will always wonder if I'm less-than. Nobody wants to go to a cardiologist that was bottom of their class, so why instill that doubt and call it a leg up?

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#77

Post by buzzwords »

pjc50 wrote: post #64
buzzwords wrote: post #58

If all companies try to hire from the same small pool say women in tech. Don't they have to compete with each other? And therefore pay them more than others? I have been wondering about this, but always too scared to ask it as it comes a cross as an attack. I assure you it's not an attack but a genuine question.

The pool is not of a fixed size, and there's no evidence of women being paid a premium to fulfil a quota. Conversely, there's plenty of evidence of both individual and systematic discrimination against women candidates and women "thought leaders" in tech.

Oh wow, really? So the women in tech is a growing pool? Enough to stop companies paying premium to fulfil quotas?

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#78

Post by k__ »

dr-detroit wrote: post #33
throwaway894345 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't fungible. Discriminating in favor of some women/minorities doesn't help other other women/minorities elsewhere who have been harmed by discrimination. The goal should be to reduce injustice, not to incur more injustice as a mechanism to achieve parity between arbitrary identity groups.

The state I live in is 85% white and the goal is to hire much less than 85% whites. So the goal is to create a diverse community that doesn't exist.

Diversity can foster innovation.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#79

Post by Bakary »

belorn wrote: post #19
Huh1337 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pushing for more women/minorities in STEM/leadership positions = you're fixing the global problem, doing the opposite = you're making the global problem worse.

The classical view about violence. It is good when its done against bad people, bad when its done against good people. The world has no place for pacifists.

This makes it sound like pacifism is in itself a stable and meaningful thing but it's an opinion that can only exist with the support of the non-pacifist. You need the context of a stable territory that is maintained by force to remain a pacifist over time.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#80

Post by NaughtyShiba »

mkl95 wrote: post #53

I was a consultant for an American company that also hired dozens of cheap consultants from development countries. Mostly India but also neighbouring countries and some Eastern European countries. Indians were by far the hardest to work with. They ghosted women systematically which was a nightmare for our project manager. They also lied shamelessly about their qualifications which led to absurd situations. The proble…

Eastern Europe ain’t developing countries…
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