Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children' • Hacker News Board

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#51

Post by makeitdouble » Sun, Oct 09, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

aliqot wrote: post #4

How does this differ from companies and elected officials openly saying right now that females and minorities are preferred for X position, like vice president of USA or CEO of Reddit?

Is this a question you will bring up every time discrimination is discussed ?

And does any answer to your question bring anything to what's described in the article or are you really expecting that we condone the discrimination against indian origin and women because of affirmative action also exists ?

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#52

Post by padolsey » Sun, Oct 09, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

torstenvl wrote: post #40

padolsey wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Not to mince words, as others frequently do, but that's basically what's happening. The alterntive, so-called "pure meritocracy", is a farce because the implied implicit "merit" is, by the very nature of the systemic inequalities that exist, unequally distributed. And merit is transferred down the generations. Privilege begets privilege. Etc. This is the issue that we are rightfully trying to counter. It is righ…

All of which is deeply immoral. Racism is bad mmkay? Hard to believe this is still controversial.

You're not wrong if you align with categorical imperative views on ethics. If however you see the scaled utilitarianist perspective (disentrenching systemic -isms and gaining more equality), then perhaps you'll conclude it is a more muddy landscape than simply "immoral". FWIW, I don't disagree with you. Consider it's not as simple as we want it to be.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#53

Post by mkl95 » Sun, Oct 09, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

I was a consultant for an American company that also hired dozens of cheap consultants from development countries. Mostly India but also neighbouring countries and some Eastern European countries.

Indians were by far the hardest to work with. They ghosted women systematically which was a nightmare for our project manager. They also lied shamelessly about their qualifications which led to absurd situations.

The problem doesn't lie in hiring Indian people though. It's in hiring cheap labour for the sake of it. If you want to get from point A to point B you either hire people who can do it or you don't. If you believe those guys have actually been delivering quality software for a decade with some technology despite being dirt cheap, you are just an idiot.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#54

Post by throw827474737 » Sun, Oct 09, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

Huh1337 wrote: post #9

aliqot wrote: post #4

How does this differ from companies and elected officials openly saying right now that females and minorities are preferred for X position, like vice president of USA or CEO of Reddit?

Pushing for more women/minorities in STEM/leadership positions = you're fixing the global problem, doing the opposite = you're making the global problem worse.

Yeah, the motivation if this idea is honorable (if it would just work out to some degree).. but in the end it is a late workaround doomed for he issue to come back in another way (if the experience from 99.9% of issues is transferable here) and not tackling the root cause.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#55

Post by danmur » Sun, Oct 09, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

Huh1337 wrote: post #9

aliqot wrote: post #4

How does this differ from companies and elected officials openly saying right now that females and minorities are preferred for X position, like vice president of USA or CEO of Reddit?

Pushing for more women/minorities in STEM/leadership positions = you're fixing the global problem, doing the opposite = you're making the global problem worse.

I dunno what other industries are like but I've interviewed quite a few software engineers this year and only had a couple women apply. I don't have much of an opinion on hiring incentives but it seems like focusing on the education system would be more effective.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#56

Post by yrgulation » Sun, Oct 09, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

anon23anon wrote: post #10

Wow - so Indian companies hires all Indians even in American offices. CEO gets caught on a hot mike saying they don't want to hire stupid Americans which forces said CEO to change hiring policy but they blunder it and tell HR not to hire Indian candidates which back fires.

Wow you are right he did say that. Had to google it to confirm. How is that not racist? And why is racism so prevalent among indians?

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#57

Post by 29athrowaway » Sun, Oct 09, 2022, 1:47 PM UTC

In all my years working in software, I have only had 2 colleagues with white hair. It is clear there are many older engineers out there that are having a hard time getting a job. Whatever is going on, it's clear there's a system in place to remove the older guys.

Then, breaking news: HR fucking sucks everywhere. That's the whole idea of HR in the first place. It's a legal shield for the company, it has nothing to do with improving people's lives.

All fucking HR surveys have the objective of removing unhappy employees and are not anonymous, talking to HR about a problem is another way in which unsatisfied employees get detected and kicked out of companies. HR fucking sucks.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#58

Post by buzzwords » Sun, Oct 09, 2022, 1:47 PM UTC

If all companies try to hire from the same small pool say women in tech. Don't they have to compete with each other? And therefore pay them more than others?

I have been wondering about this, but always too scared to ask it as it comes a cross as an attack. I assure you it's not an attack but a genuine question.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#59

Post by chrischattin » Sun, Oct 09, 2022, 1:47 PM UTC

lifeformed wrote: post #46

aliqot wrote: post #4

How does this differ from companies and elected officials openly saying right now that females and minorities are preferred for X position, like vice president of USA or CEO of Reddit?

Because some societal imbalances are stuck in a local minimum, and it requires some artificial pressures to get out of it. The goal is to improve opportunities for groups that historically had less of them. Manually adjusting the workforce demographics is one of the tools to nudge things towards the goal, to help shift attitudes and education. It's not perfect, but it's not like market forces are going to do it.

You can’t fix racism/sexism by being racist/sexist.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#60

Post by acegopher » Sun, Oct 09, 2022, 1:47 PM UTC

aliqot wrote: post #4

How does this differ from companies and elected officials openly saying right now that females and minorities are preferred for X position, like vice president of USA or CEO of Reddit?

While 'reverse discrimination' can end up being a concern, the societal reason for it's use is to correct for past legal or defacto discrimination that may have become structural.

Discrimination can have long-lasting or multi-generational effects that can persist. Men may consciously or subconsciously prefer other men, calling it "culture fit". Today's minorities may not have the same wealth distribution, which allows for greater risk taking, due to historical redlining and discrimination for jobs.

So 'reverse discrimination', when applied correctly, can help to break those structural inequities.