ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective • Hacker News Board

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#91

Post by bluedino » Sat, Oct 08, 2022, 5:20 PM UTC

jpalomaki wrote: post #86

scrlk wrote: post #24

Sadly they don't make them like they used to. Keyboards and repairability comes to mind. I don't mind the chiclet keycaps, but Lenovo really ruined the keyboard when they went from the 7 row layout [0] to the current 6 row layout [1]. Each new generation of ThinkPad reduces the travel distance of the keyboard - they've gone from 2.5 mm in the T420 (2011) to 1.5 mm in the T14 G3 (2022). 1 mm doesn't sound like on pape…

As longtme Lenovo user I sometimes wonder if they are designing for users or for corporate buyers.

The TN 1366x768 screens they used for years say "corporate buyers"

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#92

Post by dartharva » Sat, Oct 08, 2022, 5:20 PM UTC

ghostpepper wrote: post #41

Does anyone think foldable displays is particularly innovative? I feel like most people who are fans of the thinkpad are not looking for innovation - they're mostly people who want conservative laptop designs.

It's obvious people in business use cases will want conservatism in design. Gimmicks like foldable displays are more suited to be introduced in the consumer space first, then brought over to business laptops if they stand the test of time in the market.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#93

Post by rcarmo » Sat, Oct 08, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

I see a lot of nostalgia in the comments. Besides my MacBook, I have both an IdeaPad (Flex 5) and a ThinkPad X1 Carbon (the latter one work assigned).

I have been using ThinkPads for almost as long as MacBooks, and I find the modern Thinkpad keyboard much nicer than the T or X series, since the longer travel gave me RSI, and the newer keyboards are much, much quieter. I can switch between my MacBook, the X1 and the Yoga without any significant decrease in accuracy (other than modifier key placement) or impact, and although the feel is different, they all feel pretty great to me.

(I will not mention the hideous MacBook keyboards of the next-to-last series... Those were just bad.)

Quality-wise, I do notice the Yoga is a bit mushier (like the Logitech K380 I am typing this in now, but with less travel), but the X1 is every bit as good as the MacBook's.

Same goes for trackpads. X1 (using Windows 11 drivers) and MacBook are roughly equivalent, Yoga slightly less smooth but still OK.

(I don't use the TrackPoint because it too makes my RSI flare up - although I was an avid user for decades, if I use it for more than a day my index tendon starts stinging noticeably)

Lenovo does cut some corners, though, and with the Yoga and the X1 beside one another the differences in build quality and screen are evident (the X1 has a great HIDPI one, with good brightness and color accuracy, while the Yoga has a chalkboard).

But compared to most other PC laptops I've used (except maybe some Surface models), modern ThinkPads are still great.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#94

Post by grapescheesee » Sat, Oct 08, 2022, 5:23 PM UTC

When I was in college I bought several bulk for part thinkpads. X200, x200s, T400s, x60, and others. Was able to rebuild all of them. Wonderfully engineered, durable like nothing else, typing on them is a treat.

Stated playing with coreboot on them, and libreboot got me more into soldering and software.

I wish they would bring back a real keyboard. I travel with a mechanical keyboard, they are so much more enjoyable and productive.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#95

Post by notjulianjaynes » Sat, Oct 08, 2022, 5:33 PM UTC

cbm-vic-20 wrote: post #65

Beta-7 wrote: post #16

It's interesting how the ThinkPads used to be the tech person's™ laptop of choice because of their repairability and extendability, but nowadays most tech people (at least in the professional setting) are using Apple's MacBooks which are the opposite when it comes to repairability and extendability.

As a "tech person" who did a lot of travelling in the late 90s / early 00s, the Thinkpad T series was the workhorse not only because of the repairability (corporate IT teams could easily maintain them) but as an end user, I loved the Thinkpad due to its durability. They were built very well- mine took a lot of abuse while being shoved under airline seats and being bounced around in luggage, having an occasional coffe…

> I loved the Thinkpad due to its durability.

Typing this on a T480 which 2 years ago, I accidentally dropped, while open, screen-first onto concrete from height of about 6 feet. There's a little dent in the bezel, but that's it. Still going strong.

I am peeved about the USB-c port not being a replaceable module though. I can still charge through the Thunderbolt/Dock port, but the other one no longer accepts a charge from any cable/brick combo I've tried.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#96

Post by stirfish » Sat, Oct 08, 2022, 5:39 PM UTC

squarefoot wrote: post #61

scrlk wrote: post #24

Sadly they don't make them like they used to. Keyboards and repairability comes to mind. I don't mind the chiclet keycaps, but Lenovo really ruined the keyboard when they went from the 7 row layout [0] to the current 6 row layout [1]. Each new generation of ThinkPad reduces the travel distance of the keyboard - they've gone from 2.5 mm in the T420 (2011) to 1.5 mm in the T14 G3 (2022). 1 mm doesn't sound like on pape…

> I don't understand why Lenovo doesn't add an extra 1 mm to the thickness of their laptops, at least it would restore the reputation for typing feel on ThinkPads. Because, after years of advertising made by designers and not by technical people, for most potential buyers more thin = more modern so to remain in the game they have to adapt to the most idiotic trend today: make devices thin as credit cards no matter ho…

I've had enough of these impossible beauty standards.

I'd take a smart phone that's 3x as thick (thicc) if it had 3x the battery life, but I currently settle for a case that's also a battery.

When my T420 finally dies (if that's even possible), I'm hoping the Framework laptop is chunky enough to take its place

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#97

Post by rvense » Sat, Oct 08, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

jpalomaki wrote: post #86

scrlk wrote: post #24

Sadly they don't make them like they used to. Keyboards and repairability comes to mind. I don't mind the chiclet keycaps, but Lenovo really ruined the keyboard when they went from the 7 row layout [0] to the current 6 row layout [1]. Each new generation of ThinkPad reduces the travel distance of the keyboard - they've gone from 2.5 mm in the T420 (2011) to 1.5 mm in the T14 G3 (2022). 1 mm doesn't sound like on pape…

As longtme Lenovo user I sometimes wonder if they are designing for users or for corporate buyers.

I heard they started actually talking to their users, and most of their users are office workers who'd rather have McBooks.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#98

Post by rejectfinite » Sat, Oct 08, 2022, 6:18 PM UTC

I dont have any nostalgia for Thinkpads but I like the laptops. My first is a T490s I got from work as a work machine and it really is great.

Still the best keyboard in a laptop I have used.

Dial down the Windows power settings and the fan is totally off on idle/low load.

About 7-8h battery life doing heavy web browsing / Citrix VDI

Looking into it I would have liked a maxed T480 instead so I could max the RAM and SSD on it aftermarket actually...

When/if I need a personal laptop Ill get a Thinkpad for sure.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#99

Post by legitster » Sat, Oct 08, 2022, 6:23 PM UTC

scrlk wrote: post #24

Sadly they don't make them like they used to. Keyboards and repairability comes to mind. I don't mind the chiclet keycaps, but Lenovo really ruined the keyboard when they went from the 7 row layout [0] to the current 6 row layout [1]. Each new generation of ThinkPad reduces the travel distance of the keyboard - they've gone from 2.5 mm in the T420 (2011) to 1.5 mm in the T14 G3 (2022). 1 mm doesn't sound like on pape…

I'm currently typing this from my T450s. My perspective:

I love the chiclets. They did a good job. The keys are perfectly shaped to reduce accidental presses.

> I don't understand why Lenovo doesn't add an extra 1 mm to the thickness of their laptops

Because they are already market leaders on key travel. Why aim for perfection when you are already ahead of everyone else.

I agree that I don't like the direction they are heading towards USB0-C and non removeable batteries, but at least for the mid-model years I think they did a good job balancing which components were replaceable.

Re: ThinkPad’s 30th Anniversary: An Insider’s Perspective

#100

Post by legitster » Sat, Oct 08, 2022, 6:27 PM UTC

Beta-7 wrote: post #16

It's interesting how the ThinkPads used to be the tech person's™ laptop of choice because of their repairability and extendability, but nowadays most tech people (at least in the professional setting) are using Apple's MacBooks which are the opposite when it comes to repairability and extendability.

It's kind of like old-school car mechanics vs young techs. Old school guys would often do fab work on the spot (welding, cutting, etc) but only have a few different models to deal with and no certifications. Most shops these days just focus on swapping parts.