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Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

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Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#571

Post by Sakos »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #390
layer8 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Translation of the cited statement by the Lufthansa spokesperson: “ Baggage trackers belong to the category of Portable Electronic Devices and are therefore subject to the Dangerous Goods regulations issued by the International Civil Aviation Organization for carriage in aircraft. Accordingly, the trackers must be deactivated during the flight due to their transmission function, similar to cell phones, laptops, table…

So do cargo monitoring (temperature/tilt/vibration/tampering) devices, which are in a lot of commercial cargo - especially vaccine shipments, but any sort of sensitive equipment being air-freighted. So do wireless earbuds, watches both smart and "dumb", hearing aides, sport sensors including chest heartrate monitors and bike sensors/computers, travel alarms, book lights, e-readers, keychain flashlights, film cameras,…

Dear god, get a grip. Somebody asked Lufthansa specifically about AirTags and this is their response about AirTags based on current regulations. I'm sure if you asked about lithium-based whatever else, you'd get the same answer because the same regulations apply.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#573

Post by Sakos »

capableweb wrote: post #257
madrox wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once forgot to put my cell phone in airplane mode during a flight from London to SFO (and didn't use my phone during the flight). I was rather alarmed to see a flood of text messages from my carrier welcoming me to Iceland, Canada, and the US upon my landing.

That sounds... Improbable. When you were passing over Iceland you must have been far too far above the antennas to receive any sort of signal, unless it landed there on the way across the ocean?

The bandwidth required for the initial handshake is very, very, very low. I'm not surprised that in areas with strong enough networks (especially considering there's no visual obstruction towards the skies) that a portion of the connection process would succeed, but it wouldn't be sufficient for anything else (thus the welcome SMSs only arriving far later).

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#574

Post by croes »

yftsui wrote: post #435
postalrat wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean "active tracker"? As far as I know airtags have a battery and aren't passive devices.

AirTags doesn’t report its location, the iPhone or other iOS devices report nearby AirTags. That’s the difference between an active tracker that has its own cellular connection.

It's not about the data but about the signal as such.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#575

Post by sccxy »

hobabaObama wrote: post #522

I remember sometime back Lufthansa had an Ad for indian audience where an old gentleman is saying to his grandson how Germans are very serious people, and he wants to avoid lufthansa. Then he tries it anyway and is pleasantly surprised by their hospitality. > Lufthansa isn’t exactly a customer-friendly airline, Finally that ad makes sense to me. It was a coverup for their extremely bad customer service.

Most Lufthansa customer service is in India or at least indian origin.

Zero help from customer support so far.

But ad is correct. Avoid lufthansa if possible.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#576

Post by Symbiote »

ceejayoz wrote: post #399
tartoran wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d think they’re stuck in a luggage area and airtags would help you hasten them getting to you? Not sure how it’d solve a logistics problem that is not yours but the airline’s. Thinking further I think the airlines should stick their own air tags on luggage while in transit and get it back when customer picks up their luggage (could be a deposit based system). This would help them automatically track all luggage.

> You’d think they’re stuck in a luggage area and airtags would help you hasten them getting to you? Absolutely! Look at the photos in https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-61848486 and imagine trying to find your bag without a tracker in that mess.

It would help that one person, but the airport and airline need to process all those bags.

Time spent searching for one bag is better spent sending 15 bags on their way.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#577

Post by GuB-42 »

dhsysusbsjsi wrote: post #552
forty wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised that anyone who believe that any passenger could mess with airplane communications by not turning their phone off would accept to take that risk and board a plane at all :)

If a phone can take down airline communications, there is something wrong with the aircraft. These should be properly shielded lines. There are now millions of hours of airline ops with phones on. It doesn’t cause any problems. Also hot tip: the pilots are using iPads the entire flight too. With Bluetooth and wifi often linked to other gadgets.

- I specifically mentioned 2G networks which AFAIK iPads do not even have, not WiFi or Bluetooth

- It can't "take down" aircraft communications, but it can be an annoyance to the pilots, which can be a problem in an emergency situation. It is a little thing, but aviation safety is a result of a lot of little things. Accidents rarely have a single cause. For example the worst accident in the history of aviation: the Tenerife disaster where two B747 ran into each others during takeoff is the result of a long and improbable chain of minor problems, some of them related to radio communication. Cell phone interference won't be the main cause of an accident but it may be a contributing factor.

- Do you really need to have your phone switched on? It won't work at cruise altitude anyways, and during take off and landing, you probably don't need another distraction.

So yes, having cell phones turned off make a lot of sense, it is a rule that has a small positive effect on security with almost no downside since you can't use electronic devices during take off and landing for other reasons (distraction) and you can't use your cell phone during cruise either because the network doesn't support it.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#578

Post by belter »

core-utility wrote: post #327
ajmurmann wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This section makes it even more confusing to me, since I thought that the whole cell phone transmission restriction theater had been removed a few years ago. Was that only within the US and I've been violating EU regulations for years?

Is the cell phone transmission theater even lifted in the US? I still get asked to turn on airplane mode regularly (though Wi-Fi is okay)

The main reason for what you call "theater" is possible interference with ILS. And saying mobile phones or other devices are not in the same frequencies, does not cover the scenarios of misbehaving/cheap or uncertified devices.

"Instrument landing: why do all electronic devices need to be shut off?" - https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/11555/instrumen...

"Why aren't cell phones allowed to be used in aircraft?" - https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/2021/why-arent-...

MythBusters dismissed it a few years but forgot to consider misbehaving/cheap or not certified devices. And I would not trust two hipsters to be the certification committee for commercial airliners... -

https://web.archive.org/web/20140715091521/http://www.discov...

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#579

Post by luma »

GuB-42 wrote: post #577
dhsysusbsjsi wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a phone can take down airline communications, there is something wrong with the aircraft. These should be properly shielded lines. There are now millions of hours of airline ops with phones on. It doesn’t cause any problems. Also hot tip: the pilots are using iPads the entire flight too. With Bluetooth and wifi often linked to other gadgets.

- I specifically mentioned 2G networks which AFAIK iPads do not even have, not WiFi or Bluetooth - It can't "take down" aircraft communications, but it can be an annoyance to the pilots, which can be a problem in an emergency situation. It is a little thing, but aviation safety is a result of a lot of little things. Accidents rarely have a single cause. For example the worst accident in the history of aviation: the T…

So when has this actually happened? There is a roughly zero percent chance that on any given flight, instructions to disable your phones are followed 100%. So, I think it's reasonable to suggest that literally every commercial flight flown in the past 15-ish years has done so with some device onboard that isn't in airplane mode.

Given that - why aren't airplanes constantly falling out of the sky? If this is the situation on every single flight, why isn't what you are suggesting actually happening?

edit: a downvote isn't exactly an answer, and I think it's a fair question. If the assertion is that cell phones etc cause serious problems for aircraft operations, then why are we not seeing it actually happen? Or are we saying that everyone on the flight is, in fact, turning every single electronic device they own off, every time, every device, for every person?

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#580

Post by luma »

layer8 wrote: post #358
rx_tx wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CR2032 batteries that are in airtags are NOT lithium-ion, they're non-rechargeable and are usually Lithium/Manganese Dioxide [1] (lithium metal). I believe they're fine to have in checked luggage if contained inside some equipment (like the airtag). [2] Look for PI 970 If transported by themselves, they're cargo aircraft only. Source: [1] https://data.energizer.com/pdfs/cr2032.pdf [2] https://www.iata.org/contentasse…

The wording “containing lithium metal” from the ICAO regulation still applies.

That same org also explicitly calls out button cells are not being covered. They really aren't the same thing as a rechargeable lithium ion cell.
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