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SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

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Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#461

Post by Raed667 »

bigmealbigmeal wrote: post #410
Raed667 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mark wants to be able to sell apps and ads on his end-to-end controlled platform, that is it. He missed the boat on browsers and smartphones, so he is aiming for total monopoly of what he believes is the next-big-thing™.

I think this is mixing up the mythology of Zuckerberg with the reality. There's no indication that he is exclusively or even primarily driven by money or power. Go watch any long-form interview with him, such as with Lex Fridman. It becomes rather clear that he wants to be more like how Steve Jobs is seen by the wider public: as an innovator and pioneer, not as a power-hungry moneymaker.

I think you're mixing up the reality of Zuckerberg and his PR.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#462

Post by ece »

onepointsixC wrote: post #457
ece wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a look at Meta's app sales to prove that? I think this list of who the subpoena was served to is pretty hilarious, and it's even more hilarious that Apple's not on this list: Alphabet Inc. ByteDance Inc. HTC America, Inc. Huawei Technologies USA, Inc. Nintendo of America Inc. Panasonic Corporation of North America Samsung Electronics America, Inc. Simula VR, LLC I think the malicious intent is all on Meta's…

In what way is the subpoena hilarious? All of those companies to my knowledge are players in the VR space with hardware. Google has Daydream, and working on more Bytedance has the Pico's HTC has the Vive Huawei has one as well, don't remember it right now Nintendo has something similar to daydream but for the Switch Panasonic has the MeganeX Samsung has the Gear Simula have their headset They all sell some form of he…

It's hilarious because of Simula's size compared to the rest, and because it doesn't include Apple/Valve, and really, only those two should even be on the list at all! They literally subpoenaed everyone except their real potential competition. I get it, they subpoenaed whoever they could. I think the FTC in the Bloomberg story linked in the post said it best: "It reflects their scorched-earth defense strategy here to fight in whatever manner is available to them"

There isn't anyone with a current model headset like the Quest, that is even remotely close in market share in the US.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#463

Post by throwaway14356 »

statop wrote: post #429
onepointsixC wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's hard to focus on multiple things at once, and we're skeptical that the bureaucratic forces in play at a large company like Meta will allow them to do a good job at making their gaming platform also one that people actually want to work in. The problem with your assertion is that you over count how many multiple things Meta has to do. What will make for a very good gaming VR Headset will also be a very good prof…

Yea… nothing I’ve seen from them is compelling. My bet is Mark is going to burn a LOT of money, fail to get mass adoption, cancel the project, and lay the design team off. But who knows! Maybe we’ll all be taking work meetings in MetaLife this time next year! Just make sure you login to your meeting 5 minutes early to preview the new season of BigBrother and score an extra 60 seconds of microphone mute time!

ai driven ads that know exactly what your meeting will be about with virtual copies of the employees cheering the product presented and close ups of the CEO (30 years younger) making a thinking face.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#464

Post by towaway15463 »

exodust wrote: post #455
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Exceptions of course would be to do it with someone remotely, like a friend or a family member -- it is a good way to potentially 'hang out' with people who aren't physically there. But the same caveats apply. An increasing number of relationships are happening purely remotely. My company went fully remote due to the pandemic and I've started building working relationships, and yes a friendship even, with new emplo…

> younger folks won't see this distinction as pronounced But they will see it as pronounced because it is pronounced, for all the reasons mentioned. People love real spaces, real objects, real venues, smells, and atmosphere. The physical characteristics of friends and strangers, from subtle facial cues to outrageous clowning around. In VR, all that is stifled or non-existent; substituted with digitally representation…

This sounds like an argument against TV or movies or the internet. Those things are also substitutes for real life experiences and yet people still spend huge amounts of time with them. VR doesn’t have to preclude the rest of the world. It’s an addition to it. When you don’t have the money or the time or the energy to go out it’s nice to be able to jump into something like VR and have fun with others from the comfort of your home.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#465

Post by exodust »

towaway15463 wrote: post #464
exodust wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> younger folks won't see this distinction as pronounced But they will see it as pronounced because it is pronounced, for all the reasons mentioned. People love real spaces, real objects, real venues, smells, and atmosphere. The physical characteristics of friends and strangers, from subtle facial cues to outrageous clowning around. In VR, all that is stifled or non-existent; substituted with digitally representation…

This sounds like an argument against TV or movies or the internet. Those things are also substitutes for real life experiences and yet people still spend huge amounts of time with them. VR doesn’t have to preclude the rest of the world. It’s an addition to it. When you don’t have the money or the time or the energy to go out it’s nice to be able to jump into something like VR and have fun with others from the comfort…

If we had to strap our TV to our heads, we'd gravitate to something that didn't require that.

As it stands a "TV" can be a screen of many different sizes and configurations, it can even be a projected image. VR can't be anything but a headset strapped to our heads. That's the point I was making about it's uptake woes... It's obviously fun and will have plenty of users dipping their toe in, or should I say customers, but "en masse" was the point I was replying to and doubting.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#466

Post by exodust »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #460
exodust wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> younger folks won't see this distinction as pronounced But they will see it as pronounced because it is pronounced, for all the reasons mentioned. People love real spaces, real objects, real venues, smells, and atmosphere. The physical characteristics of friends and strangers, from subtle facial cues to outrageous clowning around. In VR, all that is stifled or non-existent; substituted with digitally representation…

I realize you disagree with my take, but if you want to understand it at least, I would suggest trying to steelman my position. The examples you bring up are probably the absolute worst cases for VR and if you judge a technology by its worst cases then nobody would use a technology. Judge an argument by its strongest interpretation, not its weakest. > People love real spaces, real objects, real venues, smells, and at…

> This same argument could have been used to argue against the Internet

No because we didn't have anything else before the internet other than landline phones, one per household.

In my comment where I said "we already have it", that's the key point. VR is not an incredible shift like mobiles and internet were, and yet your last line flirts with the word "default". Of course it will be popular and clever, and will do well for the special times we want VR by placing a thing on our heads. But like drone cameras, VR will not elbow out the default cameras we already have that work better in most cases.

> but to attribute some mystical quality to physical connections neglects the sheer growth of the internet

Some mystical quality? You say that like "meh, real life"! The internet isn't trying to be "reality", it's just the internet. VR literally has the word reality in its name. Obviously comparisons will be made to actual reality for technologies that use the same word in the name.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#467

Post by curioussavage »

Eisenstein wrote: post #367
towaway15463 wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I do watch movies with others in VR on a fairly regular basis and it’s great. Could be better, headsets need to be more comfortable and pass through has room for improvement but both of those things are on the very near horizon. Look at the cambria demos, they’re already doing mixed reality by blending the room with the experience. No reason that can’t be used to put your couch, coffee table and SO in the virtu…

Sure, it has use cases, but the fact is that something like a phone, or a tablet, or a TV can be used and not used within a fraction of a second as required. Putting on a headset is like going to a movie theater -- it is fine for occasions but it isn't something I can see people wanting to do regularly.

You are thinking with present limitations and I mostly agree.

I can actually take a drink with the headset on but the bulk does make it odd. But these next gen headsets are much more compact. Check out the vive flow, and then the nvidia prototype holographic displays.

If I live in a small apartment or dorm or just don’t have a tv in my room and want to watch anything then that becomes a better choice than holding my extremely heavy iPhone or iPad very soon.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#468

Post by Eisenstein »

curioussavage wrote: post #467
Eisenstein wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it has use cases, but the fact is that something like a phone, or a tablet, or a TV can be used and not used within a fraction of a second as required. Putting on a headset is like going to a movie theater -- it is fine for occasions but it isn't something I can see people wanting to do regularly.

You are thinking with present limitations and I mostly agree. I can actually take a drink with the headset on but the bulk does make it odd. But these next gen headsets are much more compact. Check out the vive flow, and then the nvidia prototype holographic displays. If I live in a small apartment or dorm or just don’t have a tv in my room and want to watch anything then that becomes a better choice than holding my…

I look forward to the improvements -- like I said, I love VR.

My issue is specifically that it has great use cases (which we have gone over, like gaming and immersion) and mediocre use cases (like socializing) and poor use cases (like replacing a computer for general and work use).

Big leaps in technology that shifted paradigms have been catalyzed by a killer app (ex. spreadsheets for desktop computing) or have been incredibly obvious (ex. long distance real-time communication for telegraph/phone).

Trying to force a technology onto the larger population without one of these things by only advancing the technology itself is not only a waste of money, but tends to backfire and set the public against it for a non-trivial period of time.

I have able to buy Quest 2s locally for a pittance in 'like new' condition because people get them based on the promise of some general utility and end up realizing they are only great at gaming and media consumption, and a lot of people just don't want to wear a headset for those activities.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#469

Post by benreesman »

statop wrote: post #430
benreesman wrote: post #133

Maybe I've just been on a too-long coding stretch, but speaking for myself, it's just really unsavory to read so much "red/blue"-style sloganism around the big tech companies. Obviously I'm biased because I worked for one, and so I saw up close the process that produces the decisions that seem to routinely generate comment threads with people comparing Google/FB/MSFT/etc. to e.g. "Satan". It's just not that simple fo…

But maybe, and hear me out here, FB deserves the shade.

FB definitely deserves some shade: the “move fast and break things” philosophy is real, and they’ve (we’ve) played fast-and-loose with things we didn’t fully understand, some of that ended very badly.

But as megacorps go, FB seems to have had a “come to Jesus” moment on those kinds of mistakes and done a hard pivot to a more responsible and adult posture. It was built by people barely out of childhood, certainly I was still a child when I worked there and putting a 20-something in charge of a powerful company is going to create some collateral damage. No one can say with a straight face that FB hasn’t fucked up more than once or twice.

But those kids grew up a bit, whether via altruism or pragmatism have decided to step quite a bit more carefully, and unlike 10 years ago, FB is probably closer to “don’t be evil” than Google is. It’s still a ruthless megacorp answering to shareholders, but I wouldn’t say that in 2022 it’s even close to the worst of the bunch.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#470

Post by ehnto »

towaway15463 wrote: post #464
exodust wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> younger folks won't see this distinction as pronounced But they will see it as pronounced because it is pronounced, for all the reasons mentioned. People love real spaces, real objects, real venues, smells, and atmosphere. The physical characteristics of friends and strangers, from subtle facial cues to outrageous clowning around. In VR, all that is stifled or non-existent; substituted with digitally representation…

This sounds like an argument against TV or movies or the internet. Those things are also substitutes for real life experiences and yet people still spend huge amounts of time with them. VR doesn’t have to preclude the rest of the world. It’s an addition to it. When you don’t have the money or the time or the energy to go out it’s nice to be able to jump into something like VR and have fun with others from the comfort…

What I was trying to communicate in my original post was that VR is not like those mediums on this specific point. It completely removes you from the environment, it provides a lot more immersion but then also takes a lot more commitment to dive into. It only takes me 30 seconds to get the headset on and be in a game, so that's not the issue, it's just an entirely different level of engagement. I almost feel a little guilty when I use VR, because it feels like I'm forgoing the real world. I don't feel that way about games or movies.
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