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Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

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Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#411

Post by jsjohnst »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #390
layer8 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Translation of the cited statement by the Lufthansa spokesperson: “ Baggage trackers belong to the category of Portable Electronic Devices and are therefore subject to the Dangerous Goods regulations issued by the International Civil Aviation Organization for carriage in aircraft. Accordingly, the trackers must be deactivated during the flight due to their transmission function, similar to cell phones, laptops, table…

So do cargo monitoring (temperature/tilt/vibration/tampering) devices, which are in a lot of commercial cargo - especially vaccine shipments, but any sort of sensitive equipment being air-freighted. So do wireless earbuds, watches both smart and "dumb", hearing aides, sport sensors including chest heartrate monitors and bike sensors/computers, travel alarms, book lights, e-readers, keychain flashlights, film cameras,…

This really should be a top level comment, as it’s spot on imho.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#412

Post by usr1106 »

rory wrote: post #268
nostrademons wrote: post #76

Note that the reason for airport mode is a courtesy to cell-phone carriers. It's not any air safety issue. Rather, 300-500 cell phones all trying to contact the next cell tower, multiple times per minute, would wreak havoc on cell service. https://www.inverse.com/article/51015-cell-phone-use-on-airp... At one point, when both cell phones and laptops were new, there was perhaps a risk to the airplane's electronics. Mo…

Before landing on the last flight I was on, the flight attendants requested that everyone turn off their phones (even if in airplane mode) due to the weather conditions while landing. Does anyone know what purpose that could possibly serve? This was in France if that's a relevant clue.

Interference can be a serious problem for autoland https://avherald.com/h?article=445873f3/0001

Whether electronic devices inside the plane are such problem I don't know.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#413

Post by RC_ITR »

layer8 wrote: post #351
ajmurmann wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This section makes it even more confusing to me, since I thought that the whole cell phone transmission restriction theater had been removed a few years ago. Was that only within the US and I've been violating EU regulations for years?

I don’t think this is about transmission. Rather, it is probably to reduce the risk of thermal runaway of lithium batteries, which can cause fire and explosion. The regulation also states that such devices “ should be carried as carry-on baggage ”, that is, in preference to checked baggage, presumably so that the devices are less prone to damage, and cases of malfunction and fire will be more quickly detected.

Sure. But to that end, are button batteries known to be susceptible to thermal runway?

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#414

Post by schappim »

catiopatio wrote: post #367
schappim wrote: post #258

Just wait until AirTags have accelerometers in them too (capturing all the abuse to bags)! Seriously though, I'll be surprised if Apple puts any serious resources into future versions of the AirTag, given the amount of bad PR[0] they've generated for Apple, and how allergic Apple is to bad PR. From the perspective of Apple, the cost to benefit ratio doesn't seem to be there, especially for a product that is a roundin…

Are you kidding? There’s a massive compounding ecosystem value in AirTags. Anecdotally, I don’t know anyone — friend or family — that doesn’t make use of them. As for the bad press? Faith in the press is at an all-time low, activist woke-scolds don’t remotely represent the average consumer, and I don’t think anyone is taking the muckrakers seriously.

>> There’s a massive compounding ecosystem value in AirTags.

I agree with you, but I'd agree with you even more if you swapped out "AirTags" for "Find My Network"[0].

>> Anecdotally, I don’t know anyone — friend or family — that doesn’t make use of them.

It might be a silicon valley bias, bur in Sydney Australia, my only friends or family that have them are those who I've consensually tagged.

Examples:

- expensive equipment - work vehicles - courier deliveries for orders > $xK in value - kids school bags (kids too young for phone, school doesn't allow watches)

[0] https://developer.apple.com/find-my/

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#415

Post by madrox »

capableweb wrote: post #257
madrox wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once forgot to put my cell phone in airplane mode during a flight from London to SFO (and didn't use my phone during the flight). I was rather alarmed to see a flood of text messages from my carrier welcoming me to Iceland, Canada, and the US upon my landing.

That sounds... Improbable. When you were passing over Iceland you must have been far too far above the antennas to receive any sort of signal, unless it landed there on the way across the ocean?

I was as surprised as you. We did not land. I do not have an explanation.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#416

Post by kortex »

crystaln wrote: post #301
nostrademons wrote: post #76

Note that the reason for airport mode is a courtesy to cell-phone carriers. It's not any air safety issue. Rather, 300-500 cell phones all trying to contact the next cell tower, multiple times per minute, would wreak havoc on cell service. https://www.inverse.com/article/51015-cell-phone-use-on-airp... At one point, when both cell phones and laptops were new, there was perhaps a risk to the airplane's electronics. Mo…

The term airplane mode will persist as an anachronism forever. Some day we will have to explain to our grandchildren why disabling networks has anything to do with airplanes.

It'll be in good company with dialing, film, photograph, watching the tube, etc.

Actually photograph was already out of date, because graph had morphed from "to write" to making any kind of image. Which itself I believe meant something akin to inscription /engraving.

Actually while photograph may no longer be a graph as in image on a surface, in some ways it's still an image impressed on rocks. Made using lithography. Have we gotten closer to its roots?

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#417

Post by FireBeyond »

NavinF wrote: post #261
hacym wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that’s true, or at least how you worded it is bad. Events of thousands of people don’t make you turn off your cell phone, so it’s not because of traffic to a tower. Instead, it’s interference caused by altitude and the pinging of towers. It’s actually an FCC regulation that requires it, so it’s not a courtesy as you say.

> It’s actually an FCC regulation that requires it I don't believe you. Regardless, I have never used airplane mode on an airplane and I never will.

47 CFR 22.925.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/22.925#:~:text=Cellu....

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#418

Post by 93po »

balderdash wrote: post #198
aliqot wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do see how they'd find it bothersome. Imagine what it must be like that the situation before was: "Oh no my baggage is lost!" "Oooh that's rough! We'll let ya know!" then nothing. Where now what it might be like is: "Oh no my baggage is lost at XYZ airport at your terminal" and that accountability is somewhat forced now because they can't just say it wasn't found or it is 'in transit' when it really isn't.

FWIW I showed an AA baggage customer service rep the location of my bag (within 200ft of where we were standing), the response I got was, “that’s nice, we’ll get you your bag when we get you your bag” - so while it’s nice to know where your bag is, the airlines will continue to not care until there are financial consequences for not delivering as promised.

I'd call the police in that situation

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#419

Post by renewiltord »

cbhl wrote: post #394

Operationally, I can see one reason why airlines would want to ban AirTags in luggage. AirTags default to beeping when they're away from the owner's iPhone. Found this out the hard way when leaving car keys with a valet parking once; came back to the keys in a drawer and beeping loudly; valet reported they had been like that all day. Presumably it's also a pain for baggage handlers and security folks who handle the b…

The beeping isn't for distance from you, it's for proximity to someone else. It's there so that you can't slip this into someone's bag and then find them later.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#420

Post by jsjohnst »

sigwinch28 wrote: post #112
nostrademons wrote: post #76

Note that the reason for airport mode is a courtesy to cell-phone carriers. It's not any air safety issue. Rather, 300-500 cell phones all trying to contact the next cell tower, multiple times per minute, would wreak havoc on cell service. https://www.inverse.com/article/51015-cell-phone-use-on-airp... At one point, when both cell phones and laptops were new, there was perhaps a risk to the airplane's electronics. Mo…

> Note that the reason for airport mode is a courtesy to cell-phone carriers. This doesn’t track. What about trains?

Trains aren’t traveling at 400-700 mph ground speed. At best they might be doing 225mph. The rate you pass by towers is thus lower.

Trains also have trees, hills, buildings, earth curvature, etc obstructing how many towers your phone can see. Planes generally have a clear LOS to the tower over a significantly larger area because of the altitude.

If the radiation pattern of the tower wasn’t the shape that it is, the problem would be even worse in fact.

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