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Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

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Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#331

Post by m463 »

golem14 wrote: post #173
heisenzombie wrote: post #46

“ Lufthansa claims that the transmission function needs to be turned off during flight when in checked luggage, just as is required for cell phones, laptops, etc.” On my phone, turning on airplane mode seems to disable the cell and wifi radios (with wifi able to be toggled back on) but Bluetooth defaults to staying on.

Apple could add a pressure sensor and disable transmission while in the air. Yes, might be not working for Tahoe or Mexico City but work in most places.

Can't help but think any "disable" function would be used by thieves to steal stuff.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#332

Post by tengwar2 »

jpmattia wrote: post #319
nostrademons wrote: post #76

Note that the reason for airport mode is a courtesy to cell-phone carriers. It's not any air safety issue. Rather, 300-500 cell phones all trying to contact the next cell tower, multiple times per minute, would wreak havoc on cell service. https://www.inverse.com/article/51015-cell-phone-use-on-airp... At one point, when both cell phones and laptops were new, there was perhaps a risk to the airplane's electronics. Mo…

> Rather, 300-500 cell phones all trying to contact the next cell tower, multiple times per minute, would wreak havoc on cell service. I'm probably being a simpleton, but this sounds like inadequate firmware to me. At the very least: Airtags have GPS, so shut them off when they are at $ALTITUDE.

They don't appear to have GPS. Rather they contact local Apple devices over Bluetooth, and those devices know where they are. But then they don't have cellular access either, so this discussion is moot.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#333

Post by stuart78 »

smabie wrote: post #318
spideymans wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My most frequent use of the air plane mode, is when I go underground on metro systems, which I find pretty ironic. (Without Airplane Mode, the phone will keep trying to connect to cellular towers, which just makes the network experience unstable) Perhaps "Underground Mode" would be more suitable in a modern context /s

Isn't an unstable network experience better than no network experience?

Not for apps like Audible which (this is my guess based on personal experience) prevents you from doing anything if you seem to have connectivity but can’t get a real response. Offline mode is simply more stable, unless you need to sync status from another device.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#334

Post by spideymans »

smabie wrote: post #318
spideymans wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My most frequent use of the air plane mode, is when I go underground on metro systems, which I find pretty ironic. (Without Airplane Mode, the phone will keep trying to connect to cellular towers, which just makes the network experience unstable) Perhaps "Underground Mode" would be more suitable in a modern context /s

Isn't an unstable network experience better than no network experience?

A lot of apps have cached experiences that they'll only show you if you have no network connection. If the app detects a very weak LTE connection, it'll try to load data over the network. That means that on a weak connection, I often end up being served nothing, rather than the data that's already cached on device.

As a tangent, I feel that a lot of these problems are fundamentally because engineers don't understand how poorly their software performs on unstable networks. Unless you live in a large metropolitan area with a well used underground transit network (in the USA, I suppose NYC would be the only qualifying city... sigh), you'd likely never experience these symptoms on a daily basis.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#335

Post by SilasX »

crystaln wrote: post #301
nostrademons wrote: post #76

Note that the reason for airport mode is a courtesy to cell-phone carriers. It's not any air safety issue. Rather, 300-500 cell phones all trying to contact the next cell tower, multiple times per minute, would wreak havoc on cell service. https://www.inverse.com/article/51015-cell-phone-use-on-airp... At one point, when both cell phones and laptops were new, there was perhaps a risk to the airplane's electronics. Mo…

The term airplane mode will persist as an anachronism forever. Some day we will have to explain to our grandchildren why disabling networks has anything to do with airplanes.

“Do do you know why radio silence on cell phones is called Airplane Mode?”

‘Because of the long historical association of activating that mode on airplane flights?’

“Well, yeah, but, like, it’s actually anachronistic, because it doesn’t really affect the airplane anymore if you’re transmitting.”

‘Okay, but, I mean, it is the mode that, even today, in 2060, most commonly comes up when you’re on a pla—‘

“Look, I was just trying to sound wise. Just let me have this one.”

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#337

Post by r00fus »

ktta wrote: post #278
rory wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before landing on the last flight I was on, the flight attendants requested that everyone turn off their phones (even if in airplane mode) due to the weather conditions while landing. Does anyone know what purpose that could possibly serve? This was in France if that's a relevant clue.

The France clue actually contradicts my guess, because I'm guessing that was an Airbus? Anyways, he's one theory: Boeing has an issue where its radio altimeters are affected by C-band 5G transmissions. I believe maybe the pilots were relying more on the precision of the altimeter because their vision was impaired due to the bad weather? The whole 'turn off phones' instruction could be because people would follow the…

Last flight I had from SFO->CDG was on a Boeing 737-800. AirFrance doesn't mean it's always Airbus.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#338

Post by SgtBastard »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #183
sigwinch28 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note that the reason for airport mode is a courtesy to cell-phone carriers. This doesn’t track. What about trains?

US resident here. What is a train? Those things that move cows, oil, and cars across those rusty bits of metal? I don't think those are suitable for human transportation.

If this were a thread on ever declining US education outcomes, this comment would be relevant.

Please, just don’t.

Re: Lufthansa bans AirTags in checked luggage

#339

Post by Animats »

IATA guidance is "Any tracking device with a transmitting function must automatically shut down when inside the aircraft." The cargo tracker industry has already dealt with this. Cargo trackers are usually GSM devices with GPS receivers. Those have to turn themselves off when in flight, and that seems to be working OK.[1]

For low-power devices that don't turn off, there's DO-160() Section 21 Cat. H evaluation [2]. This is the EU standard for equipment intended for use aboard aircraft. Emissions must be very low for that.

Apple AirTags emit a ultrawideband signal for location, and use low-energy Bluetooth for local communication. Whether that can pass Category H evaluation (the toughest spec, OK next to an antenna) or even Category M evaluation (inside the cabin) is a good question. Not sure about UWB.

[1] https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/the-agency/faqs/cargo-tracking...

[2] https://do160.org/emission-of-radio-frequency-energy/

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