Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
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Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
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Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#2I think some of these points could be made about any contract developers.
The biggest issue I've seen is that if you don't have things fully spec'ed/flushed out, it becomes a mess. With a couple of committed developers working together no matter where they are, let's you be more agile, and not have to do as much up front work.
Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#3I think some of these points could be made about any contract developers. The biggest issue I've seen is that if you don't have things fully spec'ed/flushed out, it becomes a mess. With a couple of committed developers working together no matter where they are, let's you be more agile, and not have to do as much up front work.
Also, taking 500 cheap hours instead of 100 expensive ones, means your product is going to ship later...
Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#4Why single out India? Sure, it's become a bit of a byword for "outsource" but I think you'd find the same were you to outsource to any country - even within your own country.
The problems pointed out largely surrounding happen due to the difficulty of communicating with a remote team. Having the product owner and the development team geographically distant make everything ten times harder; doesn't matter if they're in India or on the other side of the same country.
Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#5Why single out India? Sure, it's become a bit of a byword for "outsource" but I think you'd find the same were you to outsource to any country - even within your own country. The problems pointed out largely surrounding happen due to the difficulty of communicating with a remote team. Having the product owner and the development team geographically distant make everything ten times harder; doesn't matter if they're i…
I'm guessing that India was singled out because the Author had 3 previous experiences dealing with companies from that country.
I agree with you that the problems he has faced would probably be similar when outsourcing to most companies no matter where they are.
Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#6Tech talent in other countries isn't the issue.
Demonizing / downplaying foreigners to feel better about ourselves doesn't really solve it either.
Take a look at who decides to send work overseas to increase their profitability. Business owners and management.
Threatened people are usually those who aren't moving. I'm not saying you're not moving. If you're ahead... stay ahead. :)
If we don't feel threatened today and sit cozy, if developers elsewhere (even in North America) keep improving, they will eventually catchup and get ahead.
Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#7With all due respect, there is no reason that folks in India will not learn the same stuff the author learnt. They would (and probably are) on hacker news - learning the same subset of things.
And, they live in a country where $2 still buys you a decent meal. I don't see why they wont be able to do a good job, for less.
Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#8I think some of these points could be made about any contract developers. The biggest issue I've seen is that if you don't have things fully spec'ed/flushed out, it becomes a mess. With a couple of committed developers working together no matter where they are, let's you be more agile, and not have to do as much up front work.
Also, taking 500 cheap hours instead of 100 expensive ones, means your product is going to ship later...
Hours of outsourcing companies are largely about milking the most overall money possible. Sadly North American companies have taken this hook, line and sinker and they over pay for too many hours. First they fell for the empire builders in their own offices, and now they fall for it with strangers.
I outsource and I don't tolerate a 20-30% overage in time at any rate. Surprisingly 100 hour quotes can come down to 30-40 because there was a "mis-understanding in scope".
Another thing I've found is a "Senior" person overseas has 3-5 years, which is maybe $20-25/hour in North America.
Paying $14-17/hour overseas is hilarious for the disconnect in time, assuming you know how to write clear enough specs that it works how clearly communicated and understood.
Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#9Based on previous experience working with an outsourcing firm in India, and on what I know/hear from friends back home, here's what I've observed:
- Although the raw number of 'programmers' in India is large, the percentage of good programmers is smaller than that in the US (anecdotal, as observed by me over ~10 years). So essentially, you get what you pay for because the good programmers can command (and deserve) salaries close to what their American/international counterparts make. Many of these better programmers are snagged by the Amazon/Microsoft/Google of world who have development centers in India.
- A lot (most?) of firms in India that employ programmers do not invest in educating/developing their employees' skills. This is partly the result of employees jumping ship very often (hence making the investment in their development not worth it), and partly the result of the business (they do one-time contracts and paid by the hour, so delivery == success. Quality/sustainability isn't as much of a concern).
- For a large percentage of programmers, career development is defined by a larger paycheck, not necessarily stronger experiences/skills. Therefore, their motivation is to switch jobs very often and do the same caliber/quality work, and yet make more money with each switch. So they too aren't motivated to excel.
Re: Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Programmers in India
#10Why I Will Never Feel Threatened by Bad Programmers
I fixed the title for you. Next time try and avoid generalizing entire countries.