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Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

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Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#291

Post by RC_ITR »

aydyn wrote: post #275
RC_ITR wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh, do bankers get paid for not doing their job? My point is that by the same logic then banks are also trustless.

> Uhh, do bankers get paid for not doing their job? > My point is that by the same logic then banks are also trustless. There's no logical connect with what you're saying at all. Ethereum is "trustless" because nobody can steal ETH from a properly secured wallet, not even the validators. You should probably understand the basics of how validators work before making a comment on them....

Nobody can steal money from a 'properly secured' safe or centralized database either?

And to be clear, what I mean is that there's nothing to stop validators from not doing work on your behalf, therefore killing the chain.

Remember when that literally happened to Solana?

Edit: >You should probably understand the basics of how validators work before making a comment on them....

I'd love for you to walk me through, in detail how Ethereum and Bitcoin compile transactions into blocks, since you're the expert.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#292

Post by RC_ITR »

varajelle wrote: post #261
RC_ITR wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh, do bankers get paid for not doing their job? My point is that by the same logic then banks are also trustless.

You don't need to trust the validator because the protocol and cryptography makes sure they can't do anything against you. And the incentive they have to mine aligns with what you want (having the chain validated) You need to trust bankers because nothing prevent them to just take your money. They're not working for you, they are working for the bank.

> makes sure they can't do anything against you

They can 100% choose to stop validator your particular chain, therefore causing all transactions to cease.

Remember when that literally happened to Solana?

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#293

Post by kranke155 »

ip26 wrote: post #242
kranke155 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much. Every piece of financial regulation is being justified by crypto scams in record speed.

So you're saying crypto will eventually race pass fiat and discover new regulations we don't have yet but will eventually need?

That’s a fascinating idea but no I don’t think so. I think crypto is just liquidity for the future internet. The idea it has any purpose as a currency seems to me like a relic of the failed Bitcoin principles.

Crypto is a bit like the early internet. People thought the liberation of information would make people smarter and democracies. Instead we built giant skinner boxes where people ignore valuable information in favor of random stimuli.

It’s likely the most dystopian outcome for crypto is the most likely - something like Central Bank Digital Currencies where every transaction is logged and financial privacy is erased. At the edge you might have something like flexible pricing where anyone who doesn’t own a business will be charged more money for transactions if they have more money, thus making sure that capital owns everything and can’t be threatened in the future.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#294

Post by itake »

tazard wrote: post #151
itake wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys). I've also heard stories where people were locked out of exchanges during crashes, preventing liquidation, because exchanges stopped or delayed deposits during high volume trading. Its super cool that you can keep your own crypto, but if you can't trade that crypto, whats the point?

I think you missed the whole point. Celsius, centralized exchanges, etc, you don't actually own the crypto. You have an account on a site. If you want to own your crypto and also trade between currencies, your better off using something like Uniswap

I think you missed my point.

A recent example is Solana. Their network keeps crashing [0]. Everyone keeping their own keys are completely locked away from trading their coin. Everyone with their coin owned in a centralized exchange can trade freely.

If you hold your own coins, you're vulnerable to network attacks and AMM instability/hacks.

If you put the coins on an exchange, you're vulnerable to the exchange's liquidity issues.

[0] - https://status.solana.com/uptime

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#295

Post by itake »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #200
smoldesu wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've missed the point as well. Nobody owns anything with crypto. When you give your crypto to Coinbase, there is no $250,000 FDIC insurance that comes along with it. You don't even get to know what wallet it's in, and if Coinbase decides to go sideways, they can snatch up your money with no legal consequence . You're right that part of the problem is the US failing to regulate them, but there's nothing to r…

>I think you've missed the point as well. Nobody owns anything with crypto. When you give your crypto to Coinbase, there is no $250,000 FDIC insurance that comes along with it. No, it is you who missed the point yet again. If you give your crypto to Coinbase it isn't your crypto anymore. You are entrusting Coinbase with your crypto. FDIC insurance may be helpful if your bank has financial difficulties, but any money…

I think you're missing the point.

Even if you have a private wallet, you don't 'own' your own crypto.

When the Solana network was down [0], could the people that 'own' their own wallets trade their crypto? What about the people with their coins on an exchange?

[0] - https://status.solana.com/uptime

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#296

Post by dlubarov »

lottin wrote: post #289
dlubarov wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of DeFi systems where (crypto)assets are used as collateral - see MakerDAO, Compound, Aave, etc. (Granted, you can't deposit a house or car as collateral, if that's what you're getting at?)

Financing is the advancement of funds in exchange for a promise that those funds will be repaid later. For this to work the borrower must own assets that can be seized in the event of default. Since blockchain-based assets cannot be seized, this means financing is fundamentally impossible using blockchain technology. The best they can do is overcollateralised loans, where the borrower must first advance themself the…

> blockchain-based assets cannot be seized

I don't see the distinction you're drawing. If they've been deposited into a smart contract like a Maker CDP, then they can be liquidated, which is much like being seized and auctioned in traditional finance.

> Funds are simply swapped.

If I take a margin loan against some TSLA stock, would you say I've swapped TSLA for cash? Most people (tax authorities included) would say that I still own the TSLA, and simply borrowed against it.

Crypto lending platforms like Aave work in the same way - users borrow against assets. Yes they're overcollateralized, but so are margin loans and many other useful loans.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#297

Post by codehalo »

CharlesW wrote: post #164
pazimzadeh wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. The point is that the poorest Bitcoin wallet is as secure as the richest wallet. Whereas in legal-land, the more money you have, the better your lawyers (and whatnot) you can hire.

> The point is that the poorest Bitcoin wallet is as secure as the richest wallet. I stand by my point that crypto disproportionately benefits the rich far more than fiat. In my view that extends to wallet management, since the rich have security staff dedicated to keeping their Bitcoin secure.

You don’t need a security staff to keep a bitcoin wallet secure, that is a very odd comment.

Cryptocurrencies are not about making poor people rich and rich people poor. It is about having the a ability to do frictionless, uncensorable financial transactions among many other things.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#298

Post by strangattractor »

saurik wrote: post #220
strangattractor wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a solution for that - it is called money and it is anonymous. I can also use it to buy things like Halloween candy at the store even when the power is out. Truly amazing invention.

But it isn't programmable, and I can't easily carry large quantities of it. Is it really so crazy that some people want to use crypto? The person wasn't saying "crypto uniquely solved this problem" they were defending against someone who said "crypto is useless if you can't do this".

Can't wait until all your crypto disappears because of an off by 1 bug:0 I guess that is the ultimate question - Does crypto actually solve a problem? Or at the very least solve some problems without creating more intractable problems in the process. I definitely remember it being touted as an inflation hedge. How'd that workout? Or that you cannot create more than X amount of Bitcoins - until they split the ledger. It seems like a new scam coin is minted daily - talk about lower barriers to entry. Just the fact that you mention transporting large sums secretly is interesting. There are many Drug Cartels wishing it was easier also.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#299

Post by CharlesW »

codehalo wrote: post #297
CharlesW wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point is that the poorest Bitcoin wallet is as secure as the richest wallet. I stand by my point that crypto disproportionately benefits the rich far more than fiat. In my view that extends to wallet management, since the rich have security staff dedicated to keeping their Bitcoin secure.

You don’t need a security staff to keep a bitcoin wallet secure, that is a very odd comment. Cryptocurrencies are not about making poor people rich and rich people poor. It is about having the a ability to do frictionless, uncensorable financial transactions among many other things.

> You don’t need a security staff to keep a bitcoin wallet secure, that is a very odd comment.

The "Bitcoin rich" are vaulting their BTC in tens or hundreds of wallets, mostly cold (hardware and paper), and those have to be managed, backed up, and secured.

> Cryptocurrencies are not about making poor people rich and rich people poor.

Agreed, crypto culture leans to wealth redistribution from suckers to grifters.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#300

Post by femiagbabiaka »

maccard wrote: post #276
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a crypto fanatic but credit and debit cards are very susceptible to fraud

Absolutely, as much as any other payment method. Meanwhile there are consumer protections available for them. One phonecall and a form will pretty much instantly reverse a debit card, credit card, or direct debit transaction with any bank in Europe. On more than one occasion this has happened to me and it's taken less than 15 minutes to resolve.

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/10/report-big-u-s-banks-are...

top of HN today

EDIT: link to thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33125442

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