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Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

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Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#111
I read (and liked) Gladwell's book, but the point of it was really just that no matter what your natural talent for something, it takes the opportunity to do a lot of focused practice to become good at it. This is to debunk the idea that the wealthy are all members of a meritocracy; even if they do have some talent at whatever they are doing, they were lucky enough to get born into circumstances such that they were allowed to do whatever-it-was for long enough to become expert.

Also, just because you're not great at something initially, doesn't mean you cannot become great, because it takes many thousands of hours of practice to become great.

No doubt the 10k rule varies according to field, because some fields are new, and no one has 10k hours yet. There are programmers with 10k hours, but most of the professionals in the field do not have 10k hours yet, for example. The definition of "great" (and therefore the # of hours required) is relative to others in that field.

I switched into programming in my 30's, when many programmers start to rotate out of it because they believe they are too old. I probably am not as good at certain things as others, but I also bring experience from previous careers to improve the odds that I am programming the right thing in the first place.

If you switch careers, it will take time to become good at the new one, and you (and your finances) need to be able to accommodate that. But it definitely happens.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#113
post #94

The 10,000 hours thing is A) probably more workforce folklore than fact, and B) about becoming an expert, but you don't need to be an expert to switch careers. Hell, you don't even need to be an expert to be highly successful. I'm in my 40s also and one of the things I've become certain about over the years is actual competency is depressingly low on the list of traits you need to have a successful career. Far more i…

The 10k thing is ridiculous for anyone who understands basic pedagogy and, as you mention, actually pays attention the competency of their peers across their life. Most individuals are stuck doing the same challenges over and over very early in their trajectory. It is not at all efficient for learning, but it is the safest bet for employers to ensure consistent production (in their minds anyway).

The main benefit is having any kind of positive coefficient in a world where you have to work to pay your bills anyway.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#114
The Gladwell book is so bad it's laughable. It's a gross misrepresentation of the work of Anders Ericsson, with completely unfounded extrapolations. So bad it prompted Ericsson to get a non-academic writer to work with him to write his own popular science version of his work, which is titled "Peak". Outliers is the worst example I know of of popular authors bending facts to make a narrative they want to tell.

In a nutshell, Ericsson never said "10k hours will make you world class" or "it takes 10k hours for mastery". He said (BIG simplifying paraphrase here) "the most notable difference we saw in elite performers between sub-elites and elites was practice, with most elites having achieved roughly 10k hours, or 10 years of 3 hours a day". He also limited this to PRACTICE, a part Gladwell totally missed. (ie the Beatles example is complete bullshit, gigs are not practice). He never said it was either necessary (lots of music prodigies are world class in way less) or sufficient (literally millions of people do 10k hours and get just decent).

So... throw that book in the garbage and make your decision on other criteria. There are many, many good books on learning and performance, but not by popular hacks like Gladwell. Anecdotally, I know lots of people who started new pursuits (and got very good), or successfully switched careers or started new businesses in their 40s.

It's really not about age, it's about all the parameters that are typically associated with age. As in, by the time people hit their 40's, most people can no longer carve out the time to consistently spend time learning a new thing, and are way out of practice at learning. Most, not all. I know lots of professional musicians, for example, who took up some other hobby late in life and got very very good, because their entire life has been constructed around leaving time for effective learning, and they are experts at learning something on their own. If you can rearrange life to enable you to learn effectively (or found a company, or whatever), 43 is a great age.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#115

I think the answer is "yes", but you should be aware that Malcolm Gladwell is a bullshitter. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/08/the-dan-p... https://archive.ph/yPd3R

Yes, but is he a talented bullshitter or an accomplished one?

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#116

One thing I don't see used strongly enough is know-how transfer from GenXers to Millenials. Docs won't do it. And everything depends on that.

Please explain detail and context further. Do you mean a mentorship kind of relationship?

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#117

In my admittedly still short life, I have started to notice something: you can broadly divide the world into two groups - those who do things and those who keep wondering if they should have done things. So for what’s worth, here is my advice to you: drop Gladwell and self-help books, if you want to and can switch to a new job, do it. Should it work or fail, you will have experienced trying. If you don’t feel like it…

Agree 100%. Either do it or dont’t, otherwise you’ll be wondering if it’s too late to change in another ten years.

Anytime someone asks me how I made the leap to building startups the answer is pretty simple: failure doesn’t scare me that much, I have failed many times, but I’ve learned and don’t repeat (most) mistakes. That and I hate anyone telling me what to do. YMMV.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#119
Hey young man, go West. When I was your age I switched from Ux to software dev.

When I attended college at 43 I was the top student in all my CS classes. Same, when I attended an immersive 3-month bootcamp 5 years later. Now, nearly 10 years later I am an owner in a startup.

I will admit that I had some advantages. First, I was a life-long programmer hobbyist. Mainly a dabbler but I made stuff, mostly games. Second, as a Ux designer, I worked in the industry and side-by-side with developers so I knew my way around the shop. And last, I've been a learner my entire life so getting in the groove to return to school was easy.

Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#120

There are so many follow up books about the subject, you could read one of them and learn more. Anders Ericsson, the source of the rule, has a popular science book called "Peak: Secrets from the New Science of Expertise" but also "Talent is Overrated" is a great book on the subject. The problem though is all these books are about well understood domains with a pedagogical framework you can grind thru. There is nobody…

The programs described in "Peak" required a coach. Coaches play an integral role in the subject's road to mastery. Yet more evidence we cannot lift easy ideas like "mastery in just 10K hours" from psych research.
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