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U.S. residents fight for the right to hang laundry (2009)

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Re: U.S. residents fight for the right to hang laundry (2009)

#121

Post by mannykannot »

ihaveajob wrote: post #74
sbradford26 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced air and radiators dry the air equally. Steam radiators sometimes can add humidity to the air it is limited and only when they are initially heating up before the valve closes. What causes dry air in the winter is the act of heating air up. Relative humidity is based on the temperature of the air, so if there is a fixed amount of water in the air, as you heat it the relative humidity goes down. So in the winter…

The way I understand this at the gut, conversational level, is by noticing that hot air can carry more water, therefore it will dry your skin faster, which is what "feels" like the air being dry. Heating doesn't remove water from the air, as you explained. But that's what people assume when they argue that "heating doesn't dry the air" as I've heard in the past. Using relative humidity is a good explanation.

Even so, it does not explain why one method of heating the air would feel different than another, unless there is something physically different in their effects.

Radiant heat feels somewhat different than warm air, but if radiant heat from the radiators of a steam or water system is significant, would that not make them feel dryer? Our house has water radiators, and I do not notice the radiant heat from them.

I believe Retric's explanation is the correct one, given that human activity tends to increase the absolute humidity of interior air.

Re: U.S. residents fight for the right to hang laundry (2009)

#122

Post by itstheman »

nemo44x wrote: post #55
mijamo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are those things that are not possible to do in the US? That just seems so absurd. I'd be pissed if I couldn't put a sofa or a car where I want on my own property! Can your neighbors also prevent you from putting your children sculpture or garden gnome in your garden because it's not up to their grand standards?

In some lower class places or college town neighborhoods I’m sure people wouldn’t care but in most middle and upper middle class places, people take pride in their homes and communities and something like that would be considered outrageous.

I've noticed that you haven't actually delineated why you think this sort of thing is bad. Could you elaborate please? Not trolling I sincerely want to know

Re: U.S. residents fight for the right to hang laundry (2009)

#123

Post by the_third_wave »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #19
anecdotal1 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

everyone needs dry clothes no one needs bitcoin

Use a mining rig as the heating element in a dryer and you'll get the benefits of both. This may be tongue in cheek but I do actually use the waste heat from our server and storage array to:

- dry produce - fruits, mushrooms etc.

- partially heat the second floor. The house is well-insulated so this relatively small amount of heat - the whole rig pulls around 300W - is often enough to keep the temperature above 15°C which is enough for the use we make of it.

Re: U.S. residents fight for the right to hang laundry (2009)

#124

Post by throw__away7391 »

bm3719 wrote: post #9

For those thinking about going no-dryer: You can also get small, indoor, foldable clothes drying racks for around $20. I used one of these my entire adult life and pretty much never needed a dryer. Later on I got a house that came with a dryer, but only use it for large items like bed sheets.

I must be doing something wrong, but whenever I dry clothes on a rack they end up with weird wrinkles and feeling a bit "starched".

Re: U.S. residents fight for the right to hang laundry (2009)

#125

Post by JackFr »

mellavora wrote: post #20
buzzdenver wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you live? Winter is when people traditionally use humidifiers because the air inside tends to be dry. (Cold air outside has a low absolute humidity, so relative humidity will be low when you heat it up inside.)

A lot of EU heats by steam/water radiators. These don't dry the air the same way forced air heating does. You are right about absolute/relative humidity, but our basement feels damper in winter than summer.

Steam radiators absolutely dry out the air.

Re: U.S. residents fight for the right to hang laundry (2009)

#126

Post by BillinghamJ »

refurb wrote: post #46
blakesterz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought for SURE that was going to be one of those made up stats from stupid magazine... nope... seems like that's actually true!? That's WAY higher than I would've ever guessed.

It's 6% of residential use . Residential use is 39% of all electrical generation. So driers are 2.3%. That number doesn't surprise me in the least. Residential electrical consumption is trivial if you don't include heating. So having an appliance use 5% of all home electricity seems pretty low?

There are commercial dryers to consider too

Re: U.S. residents fight for the right to hang laundry (2009)

#127

Post by sbradford26 »

Retric wrote: post #82
sbradford26 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced air and radiators dry the air equally. Steam radiators sometimes can add humidity to the air it is limited and only when they are initially heating up before the valve closes. What causes dry air in the winter is the act of heating air up. Relative humidity is based on the temperature of the air, so if there is a fixed amount of water in the air, as you heat it the relative humidity goes down. So in the winter…

Forced Air generally increase the exchange of new air from outside. Individual rooms will tend to be above or below ambient pressure which causes an exchange of air with the outside. Carefully balanced systems can minimize the effect, but homes are rarely built with this in mind. You can get a related effect with thermostats which raise and lower the house’s temperature over the day as air expands with increased temp…

That is definitely an issue that is out there. Sadly cheap builders try and get away with a single return per floor in a house which is simply not enough. My point is mostly that forced air versus hydronic isn't what causes a difference in dryness of air. It largely comes down to the quality of the install of each and the tightness of the home. Hydronic is typically more expensive and tends to be found it better built homes. My house is an exception to that rule though, I am still working on sealing up air leaks from where all the pipes ran for our baseboard heat.

Re: U.S. residents fight for the right to hang laundry (2009)

#128

Post by gambiting »

nemo44x wrote: post #17

Although I get her point I think she’s antisocial and being a bad neighbor. Especially by insisting to hang it in the front yard. To live peacefully in a society you have to compromise and you can’t just do as you please. Communities have certain standards and by-laws that should be respected. If you’re compelled then bring it up at the next town meeting and rally support for your cause. What if someone decides they…

>>What if someone decides they should park their car on the front lawn since the boat and camper take up the driveway? Or just set a couch up on the front lawn because I like to have a nap there?

Wait, isn't America meant to be land of the free? Is it their front lawn, or is it not? I live in a much less "free" country according to any American, and yet neither thing would be a problem. It's your front lawn, want to a park a car there? That's your call.

What an incredibly weird argument that is.

Re: U.S. residents fight for the right to hang laundry (2009)

#129

Post by ghaff »

nonethewiser wrote: post #102
refurb wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 6% of residential use . Residential use is 39% of all electrical generation. So driers are 2.3%. That number doesn't surprise me in the least. Residential electrical consumption is trivial if you don't include heating. So having an appliance use 5% of all home electricity seems pretty low?

I'm actually struggling to figure out the remaining 94%. I guess AC is like #1, fridge, tv/computer.... lights ... ?

I would guess AC (on average across the US) is a big one. Electric heat where it exists and is needed, refrigerators/freezers, over/stove, washer and dishwasher often heat water some. With LED lights/monitors and a general shift to more mobile electronics, I imagine that sort of thing is pretty far down the list.

Re: U.S. residents fight for the right to hang laundry (2009)

#130

Post by hn_go_brrrrr »

morsch wrote: post #4

For the entirety of my life, we've hung or clothes to dry inside. No dryer. No, they don't smell bad. Yes, even with small kids in the household. No, there is no problem with mold. No, it doesn't take forever, I'd estimate twelve hours most of the year, depending on how fast you spun them (typically 1200+ rpm). Yes, the evaporating cools down the room, though I can't say I ever noticed it. In terms of energy efficien…

> Yes, the evaporating cools down the room, though I can't say I ever noticed it.

How does adding latent heat reduce the sensible heat? Are the clothes washed in very cold water?

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