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Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

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Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#31

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

tgv wrote: post #15

My opinion: * The 10000 hour rule is nonsense. There are skills that require very much practice, and a lot of those are unattainable for most people. You could practice 10,000 hours on the violin or playing chess without reaching the lofty heights of Hahn or Magnusson. That does require some kind of "talent". * Many other skills can be acquired in much less time, certainly if you don't start from scratch. E.g., learn…

> The 10000 hour rule is nonsense

Even if there is some merit to the "rule", the intent behind it is you'll master something in that amount of time. You can become good at something with far less time. You just need to be good to earn a living. I think of all the jobs I've worked and the slackers and incompetence I've seen. I think with some education about a job and decent intelligence most people can put in the effort, learn on the job and become good - if they want to.

10k hours is roughly 5 working years of experience with no nights+weekends extra time so if OP switches careers now, they could be mastering something by the time they're 48. I've seen people switch careers into software, and go from junior to mid level up to senior in that time.

Do it.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#32

Post by diarrhea »

tgv wrote: post #15

My opinion: * The 10000 hour rule is nonsense. There are skills that require very much practice, and a lot of those are unattainable for most people. You could practice 10,000 hours on the violin or playing chess without reaching the lofty heights of Hahn or Magnusson. That does require some kind of "talent". * Many other skills can be acquired in much less time, certainly if you don't start from scratch. E.g., learn…

I believe in talent to a limited degree. It governs the floor, ceiling and learning curve's slope. Kind of like the parameters to a sigmoid function. Magnus Carlsen's very first chess match was likely much better than most other people's/kids', he learned at a breakneck pace and obviously, possesses a high skill ceiling.

However, there is a huge and dynamic middle ground that can be conquered by anyone through nothing but work and dedication.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#33

Post by matwood »

theGeatZhopa wrote: post #23

The rule is bullshit and the truth at the same time. Just imagine playing guitar from the beginning until you reach 10000 h of physical practice. Just say.. 10h a day ..that would mean 3 years of extensive training. You for sure will be a Master after that. Or, just assume everyday 1h of practicing. That's 10000 days.. something like 30 years.. So this rule doesn't mean you can't be a Master if you didn't invest 10k…

> if it's something you can enjoy.

This is the most important things regardless of 10kh and how someone gets there. If someone doesn't enjoy what they are doing, they won't practice and they won't get better.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#34

Post by 29athrowaway »

tgv wrote: post #15

My opinion: * The 10000 hour rule is nonsense. There are skills that require very much practice, and a lot of those are unattainable for most people. You could practice 10,000 hours on the violin or playing chess without reaching the lofty heights of Hahn or Magnusson. That does require some kind of "talent". * Many other skills can be acquired in much less time, certainly if you don't start from scratch. E.g., learn…

10,000 hours of chess as a kid is different to 10,000 as an adult.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#35

Post by bejd »

Many people here are saying the "10,000 hours rule" is a myth, and while I wouldn't disagree with them it's a little more nuanced than that. Gladwell is a populariser, and simplified the research of Anders Ericsson [1] into a catchy soundbite.

Ericsson describes "deliberate practice". That is, to become an expert you must "work on high specific tasks assigned to overcome weaknesses, and you would have your performance monitored carefully for further improvement" [2]

[1] https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1993-40718-001

[2] https://www.ysamphy.com/anders-ericsson-deliberate-practice/

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#36

Post by Lutger »

tgv wrote: post #15

My opinion: * The 10000 hour rule is nonsense. There are skills that require very much practice, and a lot of those are unattainable for most people. You could practice 10,000 hours on the violin or playing chess without reaching the lofty heights of Hahn or Magnusson. That does require some kind of "talent". * Many other skills can be acquired in much less time, certainly if you don't start from scratch. E.g., learn…

Mastering a skill doesn't imply being in the top 10 or even 100. It simply means acquiring expertise to a point of diminishing returns and being recognized by your peers as very skilled. It's perfectly possible to become really good at chess and at the violin after a lot of practice. Good enough to impress a beginner.

Learning a second programming language isn't really learning a new skill, it's maybe more like learning a new genre of music if you already play the violin well, or learning how to play speed chess once you're already a master.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#37

Post by chiefalchemist »

The 10,000 Hour Rule is misnamed. It's not a rule. It's a rough estimate.

Also, when you read the small print, it does not guarantee success. It simply say that *if* you aim to achieve mastery - to be towards to the top of your given field - then expect to put in *at least* 10,000 hrs.

It's a generalization and will vary from individual to individual and skill to skill.

As a side note, I recently started reading "The Are of Possibility" by Zander and Zander. If your considering a career / life pivot then this book might be for you.

https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-art-of-possibility-transfo...

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#38

Post by BergTheBold »

If you think you can afford to make a change and you have a clear goal, then you should take advantage of it before your life changes and you can't any longer. I had a major career change in my early to mid 30s (I'm 40 now) and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. I've heard a saying which I heard is an old Chinese proverb; no clue if its background is true or not, but it goes like: The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time to plant a tree is right now.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#39

Post by 29athrowaway »

bejd wrote: post #35

Many people here are saying the "10,000 hours rule" is a myth, and while I wouldn't disagree with them it's a little more nuanced than that. Gladwell is a populariser, and simplified the research of Anders Ericsson [1] into a catchy soundbite. Ericsson describes "deliberate practice". That is, to become an expert you must "work on high specific tasks assigned to overcome weaknesses, and you would have your performanc…

It's a rule. If you have practiced for only 9,999 hours, 59 minutes, 59 seconds, 999 milliseconds you suck.

Re: Ask HN: 10k hours rule to master anything. Could I switch career when I am 43?

#40

Post by matwood »

First, the 10k hour rule doesn't mean people are terrible and then suddenly become experts. They are getting better the entire time. I would argue the large majority of working professionals are nowhere near experts at their jobs for the simple fact if someone is any good they tend to get promoted to a new job.

Second, I know many people who switched careers. You have plenty of time at nearly any age if you are willing to be humble and learn. I have found that it's not that older people can't learn, it's often they are unwilling. At someone who just turned 45, I make it a point to practice humble learning daily.

Finally, think about what you can uniquely bring over from your old career to your new career. People skills transfer very well, but also industry knowledge and general business.

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