The non-linear workdays changing the shape of productivity • Hacker News Board

Re: The non-linear workdays changing the shape of productivity

#41

Post by christophilus » Fri, Oct 07, 2022, 12:31 AM UTC

jacknews wrote: post #23

mkl95 wrote: post #6

Something that the software industry has to assimilate eventually is that unless your organization is very efficient, there's not a big difference between working for 6 or 10 hours a day. Scrum / agile / whatever as understood by most companies does not prevent context switching, synchronous work that could be done asynchronously, and interruptions. When added together, those things shrink your team's capacity massiv…

It's extremely taxing to do more than about 6 hours of real, actual work a day, so any extra hours are almost necessarily spent in less taxing activities like meetings etc.

Meetings are the most taxing part of the job to me. I can program for 10 hours when I’m in a flow state. I can sit in a meeting for maybe 10 minutes before I start doodling.

Re: The non-linear workdays changing the shape of productivity

#42

Post by ethanbond » Fri, Oct 07, 2022, 12:37 AM UTC

jdminhbg wrote: post #28

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the length of our work week followed productivity, the workweek would be at 13 hours today. Your claim is completely and utterly baseless.

You can easily work 13 hours a week if you are willing to enjoy early 20th century living standards! The gains from productivity are distributed between extra leisure time and extra material benefits.

And landlords. Productivity improvements get baked into the price of land.

Re: The non-linear workdays changing the shape of productivity

#43

Post by charles_f » Fri, Oct 07, 2022, 12:42 AM UTC

I struggle immensely with that. Knowing that I will "have to" work tonight is a source of stress and I'm incapable of loosening until I am done for the day. Iwl want to go to work, do my duty, and be done with it. I don't see this as an improvement, but as a work around instead of effectively moving towards less work.

Re: The non-linear workdays changing the shape of productivity

#44

Post by kayodelycaon » Fri, Oct 07, 2022, 1:02 AM UTC

fritolaid wrote: post #13

itslennysfault wrote: post #3

small but important correction... > However, when society industrialised, a rigid, five-day, 40-hour workweek arose in factory settings ummm... no. More like the 6 day 16 hour per day work-week arose in factory settings. The five-day, 40-hour workweek was fought and died for by the labor movement.

in tech, we don't really have 40hr/wk. It's more like 80hr/wk. And work on weekends. If you have a position that requires 40hrs/wk or less and no work on weekends whatsoever, consider yourself lucky. I hear stories about colleagues being overworked on continuous basis.

Somehow, I've managed to work 40/hr week or less at all of my jobs.

Recently, due to a disability, I've been limited to a max of 40 hr/wk with a restricted schedule (M-F 0800-1800). Unfortunately, I can't do on-call and no matter how severe an incident is in the middle of the night, I'm not available.

No one has an issue with this. In a funny way, it's good I'm on the team because we're always testing the "Kayodé bus factor". Thus far, it's been more than 1.

Re: The non-linear workdays changing the shape of productivity

#45

Post by jdminhbg » Fri, Oct 07, 2022, 1:03 AM UTC

srveale wrote: post #31

jdminhbg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can easily work 13 hours a week if you are willing to enjoy early 20th century living standards! The gains from productivity are distributed between extra leisure time and extra material benefits.

Ah yes, the 20th century standard of owning a home with land and providing for a family of 8, easily affordable on 13 hrs per week.

In the middle of nowhere with no car or household appliances or health care where half of your food comes out of your garden, of course you can afford that.

You could also afford to live in a fire trap tenement house with your family of 8 in two bedrooms, although said houses are now illegal so you probably can't physically do that anymore.

Re: The non-linear workdays changing the shape of productivity

#46

Post by googlryas » Fri, Oct 07, 2022, 1:08 AM UTC

srveale wrote: post #31

jdminhbg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can easily work 13 hours a week if you are willing to enjoy early 20th century living standards! The gains from productivity are distributed between extra leisure time and extra material benefits.

Ah yes, the 20th century standard of owning a home with land and providing for a family of 8, easily affordable on 13 hrs per week.

When has providing for a family of eight been the norm in america? I assume you're thinking something like two kids plus all four grandparents living under one roof? That's never been the norm.

Re: The non-linear workdays changing the shape of productivity

#47

Post by fritolaid » Fri, Oct 07, 2022, 1:24 AM UTC

fritolaid wrote: post #13

itslennysfault wrote: post #3

small but important correction... > However, when society industrialised, a rigid, five-day, 40-hour workweek arose in factory settings ummm... no. More like the 6 day 16 hour per day work-week arose in factory settings. The five-day, 40-hour workweek was fought and died for by the labor movement.

in tech, we don't really have 40hr/wk. It's more like 80hr/wk. And work on weekends. If you have a position that requires 40hrs/wk or less and no work on weekends whatsoever, consider yourself lucky. I hear stories about colleagues being overworked on continuous basis.

No post body was provided.

Re: The non-linear workdays changing the shape of productivity

#48

Post by colinsane » Fri, Oct 07, 2022, 2:31 AM UTC

fritolaid wrote: post #13

itslennysfault wrote: post #3

small but important correction... > However, when society industrialised, a rigid, five-day, 40-hour workweek arose in factory settings ummm... no. More like the 6 day 16 hour per day work-week arose in factory settings. The five-day, 40-hour workweek was fought and died for by the labor movement.

in tech, we don't really have 40hr/wk. It's more like 80hr/wk. And work on weekends. If you have a position that requires 40hrs/wk or less and no work on weekends whatsoever, consider yourself lucky. I hear stories about colleagues being overworked on continuous basis.

i don’t understand this meme. is it some job-security/gate-keeping attempt, based on scaring new people away from the industry?

Re: The non-linear workdays changing the shape of productivity

#49

Post by cercatrova » Fri, Oct 07, 2022, 2:32 AM UTC

christophilus wrote: post #41

jacknews wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's extremely taxing to do more than about 6 hours of real, actual work a day, so any extra hours are almost necessarily spent in less taxing activities like meetings etc.

Meetings are the most taxing part of the job to me. I can program for 10 hours when I’m in a flow state. I can sit in a meeting for maybe 10 minutes before I start doodling.

Sounds like symptoms of adult ADHD from what I've read on HN about it.

Re: The non-linear workdays changing the shape of productivity

#50

Post by musicale » Fri, Oct 07, 2022, 2:37 AM UTC

christophilus wrote: post #39

itslennysfault wrote: post #3

small but important correction... > However, when society industrialised, a rigid, five-day, 40-hour workweek arose in factory settings ummm... no. More like the 6 day 16 hour per day work-week arose in factory settings. The five-day, 40-hour workweek was fought and died for by the labor movement.

And Henry Ford.

Didn't actually die for the 40-hour work week, but he did institute one at Ford, possibly because he thought it would increase productivity vs. a 48-hour week and drive demand for cars since workers would drive places on the weekends.