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Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

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Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#111

Post by quickthrower2 »

vsareto wrote: post #72

These archetypes seem like they should have different job titles except for maybe Solver. Additionally, what differentiates a Staff Engineer who's a Team Lead archetype from someone that's a TeamLead? Overloading the Staff Engineer title with these archetypes is going to lead to identity confusion in the job hunting landscape. If you're searching for Staff Engineer positions by title, now you need to figure out if yo…

Salary is always going to be confused world. People can often earn more as a graduate than a senior by moving to another company or country. Within an org it is hard to measure everyone's true contribution. People's salaries may reflect the job market when they joined. So someone who joined recently gets paid more for a more junior position than someone who has been at the company for years. The company needs to keep salaries secret to avoid people getting annoyed at this! Companies are now also completing for staff not only with other companies, but with investors! If someone is capable, they could go off and start their own thing too. They are also competing with FU money that people have built up. The desire to control this with titles and bands makes me laugh. Obviously big companies need to do this though.

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#112

Post by chrisseaton »

marssaxman wrote: post #110
chrisseaton wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's strange to see this idea come up and become taken seriously, seemingly out of nowhere. Nonsense it's as old as the tech industry, and the defence industry it grew out of. The name comes from the military, where it's even older.

The term may well be as old as the tech industry, but I have somehow spent all 30-odd years of my career in said industry without hearing it discussed, until somewhat recently. I wonder what has changed. I don't think of the tech industry I have been working in as being related to defense much at all - I trace my computing roots back to the home computer era of the '80s. Perhaps there have been parallel streams which…

> without hearing it discussed, until somewhat recently

Maybe you’re now reaching that level yourself so now interacting with those people?

Like saying ‘how come nobody’s ever discussed prostrate exams until I got to my 40s’.

> I don't think of the tech industry I have been working in as being related to defense much at all

Microprocessors come from defence, as does Silicon Valley.

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#113

Post by eftychis »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #64
hayst4ck wrote: post #40

This is jaded and angry, but I think there is another archetype called "the politician." They play the game extremely well, providing poorly thought out solutions quickly to problems they haven't dug into the complexity of. They lay operational traps everywhere in their quest to get things done fast (like directly embedding config data in code to avoid fixing the config format). Once they've picked the low hanging fr…

Next level politicians do a really broken implementation first cycle so they can deliver a solve next quarter for eye popping data driven results. I've personally warned people about terrible designs, saw them get implemented, they cost the company millions, but then they "improved" it next quarter to save the company "millions" ... They got promoted, I got called names like "too negative"... Great company.

I am guessing most/a lot of us have seen similar situations (unfortunately). (Sometimes, though situations like that are unavoidable -- given that demos can become product overnight or a deadline is unattainable no matter what you shave off. If I had a nickel for each time I had seen any of the above happen...)

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#114

Post by bsenftner »

YorkianTones wrote: post #106

Are staff engineers needed? The role seems like a relatively new invention. Senior and midlevel IC engineers do the heavy lifting, principals set strategy and define architecture, EMs manage engineers, PMs manage product. I'm not clear on what the role of the staff engineer is and why it's needed.

In VFX and animation production there is a "firefighter" position similar to the Staff Engineer: a senior level developer unassigned to a specific project, able to float as needed and provide support and solutions for other projects that need spot senior level support. At some studios this role goes to sr. and lead developers whose projects are canceled/halted until they can be reassigned. At others, it's like a mini-sabbatical for sr level technical staff that would otherwise leave, but the company does not want them to leave.

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#115

Post by jameshart »

hayst4ck wrote: post #40

This is jaded and angry, but I think there is another archetype called "the politician." They play the game extremely well, providing poorly thought out solutions quickly to problems they haven't dug into the complexity of. They lay operational traps everywhere in their quest to get things done fast (like directly embedding config data in code to avoid fixing the config format). Once they've picked the low hanging fr…

There are people who are bad at every job.

That doesn’t mean that the people who are hiring people into that role are looking to have someone do it badly. Or that anyone who wants such a role is automatically suspected of having nefarious motives.

These role archetypes are descriptions of realistic, reasonable expectations for high level IC roles. It’s a useful, positive contribution that will help engineering directors and senior coders better negotiate clearly defined roles and responsibilities.

It’s just not constructive to say ‘but yeah, sometimes when you employ someone at this level and you don’t clarify the role or hold them accountable, they do terrible things and it enables charlatans to prosper!’

Sure, of course it does. But this article is a useful and constructive model for helping prevent that from happening.

What you frame as an addition to the article actually represents a cynical undermining of its entire value. I think that’s a sad way to engage.

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#116

Post by woah »

hayst4ck wrote: post #40

This is jaded and angry, but I think there is another archetype called "the politician." They play the game extremely well, providing poorly thought out solutions quickly to problems they haven't dug into the complexity of. They lay operational traps everywhere in their quest to get things done fast (like directly embedding config data in code to avoid fixing the config format). Once they've picked the low hanging fr…

Their crappy code might be generating millions of dollars in revenue while you fix it and curse their name

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#117

Post by maxrev17 »

ble wrote: post #65
hayst4ck wrote: post #40

This is jaded and angry, but I think there is another archetype called "the politician." They play the game extremely well, providing poorly thought out solutions quickly to problems they haven't dug into the complexity of. They lay operational traps everywhere in their quest to get things done fast (like directly embedding config data in code to avoid fixing the config format). Once they've picked the low hanging fr…

I usually think of an at-work "politician" as somehow taking advantage of relationships or social forces. What you describe sounds more to me like the ""10X engineer"" (with extra scare quotes for good measure). Many people have been skeptical of the idea of the 10X engineer. One take is that if your normal engineers are less than 1/10th as productive as another engineer and all of them are merely human beings, there…

The 10x is a transition from knowing how to solve problems quickly and efficiently, to being burned out because too much of the solving problems quickly and efficiently. Like a bright burning filament bulb lol. OK I'm probably exaggerating but I have encountered this.

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#118

Post by opportune »

denton-scratch wrote: post #84
opportune wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Staff” has been a regular title for SV software companies for quite a while now. It is basically the next level past “senior”. Whereas a senior will normally report to a line manager, staff engineers will often report to a middle manager and have managers as their peers. A normal range for a senior is 5-10 years of experience (but still many people will have more experience than that but not be “senior” depending on…

Thanks for explaining! The last time I was involved with job-title hierarchies (a long time ago), nobody was a programmer, everyone was an analyst. The people who did telephone support were called support analysts. I graduated to senior sales support analyst (roughly, doing random free work for the prospect, to close a sale). We assumed we were superior to "engineers": they were the guys that swapped-out hard disks a…

It is kind of the opposite now, at least in the US/SV. Programmers are “Software Engineers” and many programming-adjacent roles like support are given titles like “Product Support Engineer”

Personally I think Software Engineer is a better descriptor of what we do than Programmer/Analyst, though of course not everybody with the title is actually engineering systems.

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#119

Post by Der_Einzige »

sbf501 wrote: post #77
hayst4ck wrote: post #40

This is jaded and angry, but I think there is another archetype called "the politician." They play the game extremely well, providing poorly thought out solutions quickly to problems they haven't dug into the complexity of. They lay operational traps everywhere in their quest to get things done fast (like directly embedding config data in code to avoid fixing the config format). Once they've picked the low hanging fr…

Since we're being anecdotal: I think that claim is jaded and angry, and makes me wonder what kinds of companies people have worked at. Honestly, I've only encountered this once or twice, and I've been a career engineer since 1989 at places like IBM, Intel, and Microsoft. Dozens of positions and groups, and I've never had to play politics. Maybe I've just worked at "good" companies (irony noted), but in my experience…

Intel was overran by MBA types until they got their most recent CEO, and it'll take years for them to undue that rot.

If you worked in a software group at Intel after 2015 and didn't play politics, I straight up don't believe you.

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#120

Post by aaronblohowiak »

YorkianTones wrote: post #106

Are staff engineers needed? The role seems like a relatively new invention. Senior and midlevel IC engineers do the heavy lifting, principals set strategy and define architecture, EMs manage engineers, PMs manage product. I'm not clear on what the role of the staff engineer is and why it's needed.

>principals set strategy and define architecture,

staff is sometimes used on road to principal, in some firms there are no principals but just staff, etc.

i think _generally_ the industry is doing swe, sr swe, staff, sr staff, principal

sometimes there is no sr staff, sometimes there is no staff and just principal, sr principal...

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