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Ask HN: What am I supposed to do after I’m “disrupted”? Work in video and CG

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201–210 of 225 posts

Re: Ask HN: What am I supposed to do after I’m “disrupted”? Work in video and CG

#201
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...which, by the way, is how most automation turns out. I've worked in semiconductor manufacturing and software, and in both cases the automation that was at one point predicted to eliminate jobs, just made the people more productive, which made them more valuable, and instead of fewer jobs there were more, because more could be done by each person (so the range of applications that were economical to do was increase…

It made them appear more productive. The machines just did the once basic work. Numerous studies have been conducted to quantify which technology made workers more productive. They all ended up with models too complex and variable to be practical. Society just needs to accept a whole of our social truism is politically correct LARP to the drum beat of a financiers profit memes. What are a bunch of rich elders going t…

expand on communal health, sounds interesting

Re: Ask HN: What am I supposed to do after I’m “disrupted”? Work in video and CG

#202
post #62

The only constant in life is change. There is no guarantee of stability or order in life, despite the human desire to carve it out where it doesn't exist. You can either embrace that change, or fight against it. Embracing the change means learning the new tools and adapting your job around them. Fighting against it means lobbying the government to create protectionist laws for your industry to prevent new technology…

This is the least BS comment I’ve seen here. Thanks you’re right, change is inevitable. I just dropped this here as a challenge if you will, but the overall feeling seems to be “you will actually make more money” or just “become an AÍ prompt person”. The first I don’t think is true and the second doesn’t interest me honestly. I trained in my craft so I could become a craftsman, if you will I’ve always wanted to becom…

I don't think craftmanship will ever go away. Better tools allow us to make more stuff and bigger stuff and more complex stuff - AI will be just another tool that creatives can use.

Re: Ask HN: What am I supposed to do after I’m “disrupted”? Work in video and CG

#203
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP's argument is that prompt engineering to produce the trash won't pay the same, and so they will suffer an economic decline.

The idea that prompting images will pay the same as taking 2-3 days to produce an image through a skillset that takes half a decade to a decade to build up… seems pretty much incredible to me. There is an upper limit to how many images in still or moving form the world needs. We’re operating at that limit already - entry level jobs in the arts are often not paid or extremely poorly paid, signifying that demand for th…

Almost everyone who perpetuates this panic seems to be talking about prompting. Typically, that's how you spot people who either:

- didn't spend much time around those ML-powered tools

- aren't artists

Or both. That's why I encourage everyone to do the actual study of what's available with those tools, and get some intuition of what works and what doesn't, to realize that text to image (or text to video) isn't going to change anything. You won't be a "film director" until we have something that can pass for AGI, and probably even then. When trying to do it with text only, you'll end up writing and tweaking a weird essay, wasting a lot of time and not getting what you want. Content generation from text is always going to suck compared to combined compositing and ML techniques by someone with actual hard skill in arts. "Prompt engineering" is a gimmick.

That's not because those tools currently suck at understanding the natural language, although they do and will for years to come unless there will be several major breakthroughs in NLP, or the hardware will be a couple orders of magnitude more capable (as Google Parti demonstrates on their landing page), at which point it'll be much more transforming than just leaving artists without jobs. And it's not because the tools are limited by the dataset in what they can do (any concept not seen during training is guesswork, and it's very poor at it; for example SD sucks at dynamic posing). That's because text is just a poor medium to explain your intention and to control the result, even if you have a human on the other side. For still pictures, smart photobashing with style and concept transfer (finetuning the model on your own visual language) is where it's at, and for that you need actual understanding of visual arts - dynamic posing, anatomy, color theory, and generally artistic studies of how the world works. The AI tools will be developing in that direction.

Sure, a digital painter will replace a brush with something smarter, becoming more of a technical artist, but what's wrong with that? It already happened with 3D CG imagery 30-40 years ago, the doomsayers were also there, except we didn't have social media to amplify the panic. But the reality is it's always been an insanely complex and skill-demanding field. ML image generation is just another, higher order tool.

>There is an upper limit to how many images in still or moving form the world needs. We’re operating at that limit already - entry level jobs in the arts are often not paid or extremely poorly paid, signifying that demand for the jobs outstrips supply.

Currently, most visual entertainment is very much limited not by demand, but by the amount of work required. Japanese animation turned into a huge industry (and calcified into a more or less uniform visual language, compared to 90's) because it was cheaper to produce and dominated the world with tons of content, not because it's visually appealing more than other styles. Low resolution pseudo-pixelart dominates indie gaming because it's cheaper to produce with limited manpower, not because everyone buys the lo-fi/retro aesthetics. The ML-powered tools have a great potential to break these limits.

As an example, consider the particular niche which is believed to be disrupted immediately by Stable Diffusion - commission artists making custom character portraits for roleplaying sessions. SD can readily make passable fantasy portraits for this purpose (save for precision), but it needs a lot of work for that, and people still end up paying artists to do this work. This is not going to change for many years, at least. Moreover, the demand is also shifting to other styles, views, and poses with some thought put into it by a human, or potentially to animation/interactivity. The expectations are rising.

Visual entertainment is mostly driven by novelty.

Re: Ask HN: What am I supposed to do after I’m “disrupted”? Work in video and CG

#204
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference between a human artist walking around in the world, seeing images and videos (many of which are under copyright) and then using those images as inspiration, versus an AI being fed millions of images and videos as part of a large training set? I am not a lawyer but I don't really see the "it's not fair use" argument.

If I can take copyrighted images and feed them into an AI, why can’t I take any code I find online and ignore the license terms and feed it into a compiler? How do you justify the existence of something like the GPL?

You can, why wouldn't you be able to?

Re: Ask HN: What am I supposed to do after I’m “disrupted”? Work in video and CG

#205
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but that's exactly the problem, the situation we've "figured out" is kinda trash. A bunch of rich people own all the farms and we gave everyone bullshit admin jobs because we can't admit to ourselves that almost nobody farms and we still all eat and maybe that means a good portion of the population could just chill out.

> that means a good portion of the population could just chill out. so you're asking those people who farm (using huge machines and automation to do so extremely efficiently) to give you free food? Why would they want to do that?

The people producing the food get paid. A third party might pay for the feeding of those who cannot pay. Or money accumulated might get redistributed to enable everyone to afford it.

Re: Ask HN: What am I supposed to do after I’m “disrupted”? Work in video and CG

#206
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not nearly the same thing. why not? Just because people take in experiences slowly, via senses, doesn't mean that an AI isn't replicating that learning via a fast method.

Do you believe that GPT-3 is going to want to become president after visiting the whitehouse? If you answer no, then you must necessarily admit it's different. It can do a lot of things, but in the end it's still just a glorified function.

Always back to the same debate then. Why aren't human minds glorified functions, that perhaps deserve their glory a bit more than current state of AI? Obviously they're not currently equivalent. But obviously there are similarities.

Re: Ask HN: What am I supposed to do after I’m “disrupted”? Work in video and CG

#207
post #57

I am a 2d artist and I have similar feelings. Are you as full of loathing for all the HN people saying “just integrate the AI into your practice” as I am? I like drawing stuff and I love that this pays my bills and I really have zero interest in becoming a “prompt engineer” instead. I think a strategy of creating an image of AI art as cheap and tacky is useful. For how long, I don’t know. If we’re lucky then it’ll tu…

I've been using these ai tools to help imagine some paintings. Previously I'd use image search. If you are drawing completely new images then I'm not sure how competitive these tools are. They're just serving a mash up of existing works. Sure they can produce something interesting, sometimes stunning, but usually not much better than what you could just find already. As for producing a physical painting, that has its…

I guess the issue is that for lot of commercial work, "good enough, cheaper" is more attractive than "better than most, at the right price". Of course that's not a rule always, everywhere, but at scale it tends to be.

Re: Ask HN: What am I supposed to do after I’m “disrupted”? Work in video and CG

#208

Get out of the race to $0. Develop business relationships. Good clients are mostly insensitive to price. That’s what makes them good clients. Good luck

Hmm not sure I follow. I have great clients and they do ask for high end work - but often what keeps me afloat is the trashy low quality stuff. A few times a year I do the high quality high end stuff. You’re right that really high end work will continue, most likely unchanged, for at least a decade (maybe). But I’m not so sure really - things are moving so fast.

Sorry for not being clear.

My point is on the quality of clients, not the quality of the work product.

In the future, clients who prioritize cheap will go on fivrr and get 500 AI alternatives to choose from if they can.

Or down the block to a lower priced competitor later this afternoon if they can.

Good clients want you to stay in business because they want to work with you again.

Re: Ask HN: What am I supposed to do after I’m “disrupted”? Work in video and CG

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe that GPT-3 is going to want to become president after visiting the whitehouse? If you answer no, then you must necessarily admit it's different. It can do a lot of things, but in the end it's still just a glorified function.

Always back to the same debate then. Why aren't human minds glorified functions, that perhaps deserve their glory a bit more than current state of AI? Obviously they're not currently equivalent. But obviously there are similarities.

A gocart and a sedan have a lot of similarities, but only one of them is legal to drive on the highway.

Re: Ask HN: What am I supposed to do after I’m “disrupted”? Work in video and CG

#210
I think you maybe getting ahead of yourself. It’s one thing for AI to produce art that roughly aligns with a prompt, which is as you well know right now what it is capable of. It’s another to fulfill the exact vision of what a person wants. That requires a much higher level and more detailed and more intuitive understanding of what the expectations are and what the vision of the director is. AI is not capable of that level of understanding yet, as far as I know. I suspect it might turn out like the issues we are encountering with self-driving. Autonomous vehicles may be able to deal with 99% of all driving situations right now but that last 1% is the killer. That last 1% is the reason self-driving isn’t good enough. Furthermore, while the first 99% may have taken only 20% of the total time to adoption to solve, I suspect that last 1% may take the remaining 80% before self-driving gains widespread adoption. Just as it could be many years before we can fully rely on self-driving technology to cart us around, it could be many years before AI really starts to supplant human artists, before prompt engineering becomes enough of a precise art to no longer need people who can exactly translate a vision into a visual work.

Of course, feel free to print out this comment, hang it on the wall and throw darts at it in a much fewer number of years when my prediction turns out to be totally wrong. It's really just based on an intuition.

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