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The life-changing effects of hallucinations

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Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#91

Post by drcongo »

yrgulation wrote: post #40
drcongo wrote: post #12

The life-changing effect of LSD for me was a profound shift in the clarity of my thinking, like gaining a new superpower (compared to my prior, foggy brain) overnight. I'll always be thankful for that first trip.

I am curious what the outcome was. Any direction your life took aftewards?

It's a good question, and sort of impossible to answer in that we don't know what might have happened if I hadn't had that trip. However, I'd guess it's a similar answer to @prhn's sibling comment - at school I had terrible concentration problems, failed a bunch of my exams etc including computer studies. Post-acid, I developed a real love of learning and a love of problem solving - the two things combined to provide the entire career I've had since as a creative technologist, programmer, CTO. I do believe that could not have happened without that first trip.

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#92

Post by cetahfh14615 »

giantg2 wrote: post #85
cetahfh14615 wrote: post #61

Of the people I've known who did hallucinogens, I knew them all before and after. NONE of them were better off afterward You can read all the "life changing experiences" that people have online, but when you take these you roll a dice. Keep this in mind. There's a lot of people who shill them super hard, and they might've had a positive experience, but consider the risk vs the reward and tread lightly edit: And even…

Just curious, were they already fairly normal? I'm wondering if the benefits are only in a narrow group, setting, condition, etc. For example, I could see these being useful for an alcoholic who has already decided that they need to get sober, but need help beating the dependence. On the flip side, I have a feeling that people who just take it recreationally (not for a conditions nor in a controlled/guided setting) p…

> Just curious, were they already fairly normal? I'm wondering if the benefits are only in a narrow group, setting, condition, etc.

This is the problem: is anyone? Does anyone have a perfect upbringing? How could they be sure?

Tbh I really don't know whether they were normal, one of them had an abusive dad and afterwards decided to cut family ties, drop out of college, and do more drugs

The problem here, and why I don't recommend hallucinogens to anyone, is that people read the warnings about hallucinogens and think their upbringing was "healthy enough" to handle them. How could they actually know that for a fact?

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#93

Post by cetahfh14615 »

joemi wrote: post #80
cetahfh14615 wrote: post #61

Of the people I've known who did hallucinogens, I knew them all before and after. NONE of them were better off afterward You can read all the "life changing experiences" that people have online, but when you take these you roll a dice. Keep this in mind. There's a lot of people who shill them super hard, and they might've had a positive experience, but consider the risk vs the reward and tread lightly edit: And even…

I wonder how much of that's due to the hallucinogens themselves versus the situations that led them to the hallucinogens.

Imo there is no healthy situation that leads someone to any drugs past pot. At that point you enter a rabbithole

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#94

Post by standardUser »

nope96 wrote: post #89
standardUser wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the idea that you personally know 8 people who have suffered significant mental health issues after using hallucinogens to be absolutely shocking . I can't think of even a single person I have known where mushroom or LSD use resulted in any acute problems. And I do a lot of drugs! I frequent drug-friendly events and hang with drug-friendly people and I even used to sell hallucinogens a lifetime ago. It's not t…

> "I frequent drug-friendly events and hang with drug-friendly people" Adults or Children? My friends were all "gifted kids" who hung out in the same social circle, and did lots (and lots) of drugs (acid, DMT, mushrooms, coke, weed) from age 15-18. In all cases it was great until one time it was suddenly NOT great. Yes, I actually witnessed at least 3 "meltdowns" where someone started acting really, really scary-stra…

These days, adults. But I had a similar group of friends in High School and the people I was closest to - including a core group we referred to as the Fry Kids - are now all successful and well adjusted adults in their early 40s. I did mushrooms with one of them the other day! Though most of them do few if any drugs any more.

As for "meltdowns" aka "bad trips", I have seen plenty and heard about plenty more. But what I never saw or heard about were long-lasting effects after the bad trip.

I'd also note that DMT is known for it's intensity and dramatic after-effects. I wouldn't lump it in with those other drugs.

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#95

Post by giantg2 »

cetahfh14615 wrote: post #92
giantg2 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, were they already fairly normal? I'm wondering if the benefits are only in a narrow group, setting, condition, etc. For example, I could see these being useful for an alcoholic who has already decided that they need to get sober, but need help beating the dependence. On the flip side, I have a feeling that people who just take it recreationally (not for a conditions nor in a controlled/guided setting) p…

> Just curious, were they already fairly normal? I'm wondering if the benefits are only in a narrow group, setting, condition, etc. This is the problem: is anyone? Does anyone have a perfect upbringing? How could they be sure? Tbh I really don't know whether they were normal, one of them had an abusive dad and afterwards decided to cut family ties, drop out of college, and do more drugs The problem here, and why I do…

Yeah, I can see that. I was wondering more along the lines of taking a medication you don't need. At that point it's all risk an no reward, even if the risks are small.

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#96

Post by DontchaKnowit »

throwaway284234 wrote: post #39
furyofantares wrote: post #22

I'm going through John Vervaeke's "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis" on youtube and it's fascinating. One thing he means to answer is: why do we have these altered consciousness experiences where we come back from it, and unlike most altered experiences (being drunk; dreaming), we say THAT was more real than THIS? And then profoundly change our lives in a positive way? Especially since the actual contents of the alt…

And what are those actual life changing amazing positive changes that happen? Sounds just like weed smokers who convince you they have all these amazing ideas which they somehow can never write down and keep for later. Maybe it's just the drug that makes you feel like something pretty mundane is life changing because you have just traumatised your brain

agreed that almost always hallucinogen users reference some ambiguous change in perception that changed their life. It's hullshit and self delusion almost all of the time.

However, here is 1 concrete example from my own life.

I had a friend who was extremely manipulative and would lie to me constantly to get sympathy or compliment me to ingratitude himself. He would steal from me,but most of the time he didn't need to because he knew I was generous and I would give him basically anything he asked for. Cause we were "friends"

I took acid, and watched him come over to my house and completely commandeer a party. I just sat watching his mannerisms. How he interacted with people. It became so clear immediately that he was an absolute fucking sociopath. When I sobered up I booted him out of my life for the better.

And this was not a case of me reading things into him that weren't there. When I sobered up I talked to all my friends and they were like "yeah that guys a fucking bastard we all wondered why you put up with him"

Something about the trip allowed me to perceive him in a way that I could not or would not have otherwise. I saw right through his flattery and fake charm.

Weird example, but in my life it's the only concrete example of a positive change from psychedelics.

Now I've got about a million negative stories, but there's a positive one for ya.

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#97

Post by furyofantares »

throwaway284234 wrote: post #39
furyofantares wrote: post #22

I'm going through John Vervaeke's "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis" on youtube and it's fascinating. One thing he means to answer is: why do we have these altered consciousness experiences where we come back from it, and unlike most altered experiences (being drunk; dreaming), we say THAT was more real than THIS? And then profoundly change our lives in a positive way? Especially since the actual contents of the alt…

And what are those actual life changing amazing positive changes that happen? Sounds just like weed smokers who convince you they have all these amazing ideas which they somehow can never write down and keep for later. Maybe it's just the drug that makes you feel like something pretty mundane is life changing because you have just traumatised your brain

This is something that's actually studied in cognitive science, you're free to watch the (very long) lecture series if you're interested, the transformative experiences being discussed are very much not about "some weed smokers."

The series is pretty clear about the actual contents of altered states being largely garbage, so your observation and skepticism regarding "amazing ideas which they somehow can never write down and keep for later" is exactly in line with some of what's being discussed there, not contrary to it.

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#98

Post by agentwiggles »

throwaway284234 wrote: post #37
meroes wrote: post #31

I’ve had two hallucinagenic experiences (acid and 2c-I) and I never got any life changing experiences. Is it like hypnosis where you have to believe in it to have it work? I know someone cured of an addiction from her hypnosis so I know these things happen. I would say I absolutely had hallucinations and the experiences were powerful and long lasting, but I’m still aware it’s a trip.

Yeah I've never understood why people say that hallucinations are real, and even "more real" and the "actual reality". The very definition of a hallucination is that it's not real, it's false. What am I missing here?

Purely anecdotal, but when I took acid once in college, I became strongly aware of these patterns in the concrete outside my house, kinda of a swirly "leaf like" structure. Long after the trip had ended, I could still see that pattern, although less pronounced. I had to look a bit harder to notice it.

My theory is that the pattern was always there, it just took acid to let me really notice it for the first time. Something about the way that the concrete dries, or maybe an artifact of whatever they do to freshly poured concrete to make it grippy.

Could also be pure delusion, so, grain of salt. But I think there is something to the idea that a new / different frame of reference and attention can show you things you may otherwise not have noticed.

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#99

Post by cetacean »

I remember doing a bunch of hallucinogens in late teens early twenties. It changed me a lot, not how I expected. I never felt like I was "one with the universe", never felt God or any of that. I never saw the "white light". I definitely hallucinated, but the weird part was you don't just see the hallucination, your thoughts are the hallucination. You only start to hallucinate once the barrier between your thoughts and the stability of what you're looking at weakens

It also changed what society looked like. Growing up I was always highly sceptical of religion, but after doing hallucinogens (and not while doing them) I started to see the same sort of irrational craving for religion in other places also. It made me realize how inherently irrational we all are, and how much of our society is built on top of fear. Also how our own emotional needs can be exploited

I started reading a lot more, and read a bunch of late 19th early 20th century literature because I wanted some sort of sense of direction. I also became a lot more conscious of whenever people exhibit manipulative tendencies or try telling other people what to want. In general I became less trusting than how I was before and more content with my own life plan. This changed the relationships that I had and made me stop talking to old friends (who really weren't very good people), and made me more assertive about boundaries and expectations of respect

The downsides of doing them: infrequent feelings of disassociation (feeling like life is a dream) and preoccupation with death (also infrequent now). Also being less trusting and more sceptical of how people try to direct each other through life. Most of the positives came about after a couple years of being drug free, so I don't know whether they happened because of me getting older or the hallucinogens

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#100

Post by BobbyJo »

cetahfh14615 wrote: post #93
joemi wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much of that's due to the hallucinogens themselves versus the situations that led them to the hallucinogens.

Imo there is no healthy situation that leads someone to any drugs past pot. At that point you enter a rabbithole

I'm curious as to what differentiates cannabis from other psychedelics such that you think there is a healthy path to it and not to anything else.

I personally think turning to psychedelics as form of subjective exploration is perfectly healthy, despite the risks.

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