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SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

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Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#291

Post by ineedasername »

ivraatiems wrote: post #281
ineedasername wrote: post #268

Meta’s defense on not being anti-competitive is to use the legal system to force all potential competitors to turn over incredibly sensitive information about their business & operations… how is this even allowed under the law? Can Facebook really just demand this?

That's not really what's happening here. Meta can't just steal that info; it goes to Meta's lawyers, who will review it and decide what to do based on it. Meta itself won't get to see it, necessarily, unless the court lets them. You might say "well, you can't trust lawyers" - but most attorneys actually take the security of processes like these extremely seriously, because they'll lose their jobs (and law licenses) i…

Are there rules preventing Meta from seeing the info? It seems like they would be allowed, themselves, to look at anything considered evidence in the case, barring an order from the judge to the contrary.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#292

Post by ivraatiems »

ineedasername wrote: post #291
ivraatiems wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really what's happening here. Meta can't just steal that info; it goes to Meta's lawyers, who will review it and decide what to do based on it. Meta itself won't get to see it, necessarily, unless the court lets them. You might say "well, you can't trust lawyers" - but most attorneys actually take the security of processes like these extremely seriously, because they'll lose their jobs (and law licenses) i…

Are there rules preventing Meta from seeing the info? It seems like they would be allowed, themselves, to look at anything considered evidence in the case, barring an order from the judge to the contrary.

I believe what SimulaVR would do is petition the court to seal their responses and put conditions on who and how those responses can be viewed. Not an uncommon thing to do.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#293

Post by awinter-py »

tmpfile wrote: post #227

Couldn't SimulaVR request all the same documents from Meta in response? Or is it a one-way process? I'm sure Meta's legal team would find reasons why they wouldn't have to be responsive or other ways narrow the scope. SimulaVR in turn could use the same arguments against Meta.

simulavr isn't a party to the suit, their powers here are going to be more limited

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#294

Post by MadcapJake »

kanetw wrote: post #147
romanhn wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is similar to saying "Facebook is fundamentally built on data collection, and social networking is just a side effect." Technically true, but not much consolation for all the social networks that didn't go all in on advertising and perished. Wish you the best of luck either way, this is an exciting area and more competition is great. They definitely are competition though.

Yeah, of course, it's a tough space to be in. Just saying that we need to carve out a niche where Meta can't compete vs try to fight Meta head on.

I am failing to see a separate niche here. There are only so many ways you can break down office productivity focus and still have a market to support you. Your team should accept the facts and stop trying to wiggle out of competing with your--frankly--main rival in this space. It doesn't do any justice to avoid this truth. Honestly, I'd be shocked if you weren't already closely monitoring their work and its reaction in the market.

I think Meta's strategy was the right one. The only execs who would even consider adopting a virtual work model would be gamers who are already familiar with the tool. Gaming was their way to get in the minds of their potential next phase enterprise customers.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#295

Post by awinter-py »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #146

You need to get a lawyer. I am not a lawyer, but I annoy them daily. You can decide not to appear, but you can be held in contempt. Note that your subpoena comes from the court, not Meta. You need to get the lawyer to negotiate down what to provide. The first salvo is always everything, including the kitchen sink. You need a lawyer to know to whom to talk to. You need to get the lawyer to negotiate the expenses assoc…

rule 45 allows attorneys of record in a case to issue subpoenas without leave of the court, I think

subpoena may not 'come from the court'

per this https://media.goldbergsegalla.com/uploads/sll-mpl_forthedefe...

(but this doesn't change your point about risk of contempt + it being a good idea to respond)

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#296

Post by MadcapJake »

kanetw wrote: post #84
cableshaft wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there are plenty of instances of companies that have gone under when a big parent company decides to incorporate your business as a 'feature' in part of their big monster product. I'm not saying it's going to definitely happen and the company is doomed or anything, it's certainly possible that SimulaVR will come out on top for productivity devices (or peacefully coexist as an alternative alongside Meta's offering…

Of course anything Meta does is a bit worrisome. I just don't think we're in the same niche-- IMO Meta is fundamentally built on data collection, and VR is just a side effect. Unless Meta decides to abandon that, I think we'll have a niche.

Enterprise loves data collection so that's really a perfect fit for their next phase customer base. That's why I think the Meta account system was important for them to get done pre Quest Pro launch (and significantly early too so any issues are worked out before enterprise demos start)

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#297

Post by nickstinemates »

nailer wrote: post #143

Off topic but their product seems awesome - VR computers specifically designed for coding, including displaying small text, running Linux, etc. Beats working from a coding laptop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x293SiEdv4M&t=25s

Reminds me of Immersed[1]. Which is an amazing concept but horrible on the Oculus. Literally makes me sick - and screen resolution/clarity leaves a lot to be desired if you're already at 4k/144hz.

I can't wait until someone cracks the code on this and makes it a reality.

1: https://medium.com/immersedteam/working-from-orbit-39bf95a6d...

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#298

Post by tomxor »

georgewsinger wrote: post #51
cableshaft wrote: post #40

>We're don't view ourselves in competition with Meta >...Meta sells reasonably good gaming headsets to customers who want to be entertained in VR; we're selling general-purpose productivity devices which are aimed at replacing PCs and laptops. Hate to break it to you, but if you don't think that Mark Zuckerberg is actively trying to create VR devices that are general-purpose productivity devices aimed at replacing PC…

We understand Meta sometimes future projects that their devices will have broad office applications, but we're skeptical it has any teeth. Consider that Atari tried to compete with office PCs in the early 80s with their 8-bit family, and failed: https://images.fastcompany.net/image/upload/w_596,c_limit,q_... It's hard to focus on multiple things at once, and we're skeptical that the bureaucratic forces in play at a l…

> Consider that Atari tried to compete with office PCs in the early 80s with their 8-bit family, and failed

I don't think that's very accurate. The Atari ST had a pretty good following compared to personal computers of the time much like the Amiga... The fact is that most computer companies from back then did not survive far beyond the decade but they had their time. So it's not really accurate to say they failed when Acorn, Amiga, Amstrad...etc, all "failed", in that they didn't produce more than a handful of unique and fairly incompatible computers with no clear future, but that had a market and sold with success in their time frame none the less.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#299

Post by kanetw »

nickstinemates wrote: post #297
nailer wrote: post #143

Off topic but their product seems awesome - VR computers specifically designed for coding, including displaying small text, running Linux, etc. Beats working from a coding laptop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x293SiEdv4M&t=25s

Reminds me of Immersed[1]. Which is an amazing concept but horrible on the Oculus. Literally makes me sick - and screen resolution/clarity leaves a lot to be desired if you're already at 4k/144hz. I can't wait until someone cracks the code on this and makes it a reality. 1: https://medium.com/immersedteam/working-from-orbit-39bf95a6d...

Yeah, Immersed popped up alongside us. A big reason of why we went the hardware route (as an originally pure software product) was that the existing hardware was not good enough.

Having worked with the prototype headset, I can fairly confidently say that at least the picture quality is now good enough (with our optical train/displays)

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#300

Post by jolmg »

tannhauser23 wrote: post #232
kanetw wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We aren't throwing a hissy fit lol. We're just stating the facts and are working with our lawyers to resolve this.

You made a site complaining about the subpoena and came to Hacker News to complain about it some more. Look, I get that you guys are a small shop but you should not be surprised to be asked to provide evidence in an antitrust litigation over the VR market. I'm guessing you haven't seen a subpoena before - they are all like this, and your attorneys will be able to negotiate something much less burdensome. So get off H…

> You made a site complaining about the subpoena and came to Hacker News to complain about it some more.

They didn't make a site to complain; it's their blog by which they're informing buyers and potential buyers of anything that can affect their progress. It also doesn't matter who shared on HN. Any HN user with an interest in them would have shared something this significant, like I was about to.

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