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Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

mjg59.dreamwidth.org

361–370 of 479 posts

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#361

I don’t see Xpra mentioned in comments yet. Works pretty well for us since remote windows and local are seamlessly integrated and managed by local WM. Solves the multi monitor issues. Definitely lower latency than vnc or rdp or nomachine from our testing. Windows, Mac and Linux clients all work well.

I have xpra installed but seldom use it since it has no real benefits (for me) over RDP (which does multimonitor, audio, etc.), but I also need to access Windows desktops.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#362
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in general but I do blame Citrix for some foot-guns. The Citrix admins at my employer have never figured out how to configure it to get keyboard latency below ~120ms (on a gigabit LAN), and the silly health meter always reports the connection as excellent. This is mostly on them - in classic enterprise IT thinking, if it’s not down your job is done - but I’m somewhat disappointed that it’s even possible to co…

A 120ms should feel immediate. IIRC anything under 300ms feels instant.

Anything above 50 ms is absolutely noticeable and should be considered a bug.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like syncthing. Dunno about phones and tablets, but I have that functionality among my computers.

I just wish Syncthing would allow for deferred sync, i.e. you see the file, but it only gets fetched once you access it. That's, imo, the only way to sync large folders. I don't need all my Documents/Photos/Movies/Whatever on my phone at all times, but I do wish I could access them when I need them.

OneDrive does that on Windows and Mac.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#364

The later versions of RDP is miles ahead of any other remote desktop protocol in my experience. I used to use it for gaming years ago (from Windows machine to Mac) - it really isn't that bad if latency and bandwidth is acceptable. As others say, it is very hard sometimes to detect what is local and what isn't with RDP. Everything seems to just work, even using the Mac client. Compare this with everything else I've us…

RDP is indeed highly performant, but the experience may highly depends on the latency. I'm working daily in a nanofabrication center and routinely RDP to workstations running Windows Server from computers with 12 years old i5 (which is supposed to be single purpose for tool billing). I wrote code with VSCode and Matlab, view GDS with KLayout, run ANSYS and COMSOL. Everything works so well even with all the 3D, despit…

Turn it down to 16 bit color in those situations.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#366

Perhaps others have had better experience, but whenever I've used a remote GUI VM (e.g. through the Guacamole web browser interface), the latency is painfully noticeable when typing. So much so that I've usually dropped down to a local terminal connecting to the vm by ssh and doing everything in Emacs (or Vim, if that's how you're bent), or having JetBrains edit stuff remotely. But then you're back to needing a decen…

Guacamole is excellent for managing servers, but hardly a reference implementation of remote access. The display protocol is getting shoehorned through a websocket and rendered into a browser canvas, whereas if you use Remmina or another native RDP client things have much less overhead.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#367
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in general but I do blame Citrix for some foot-guns. The Citrix admins at my employer have never figured out how to configure it to get keyboard latency below ~120ms (on a gigabit LAN), and the silly health meter always reports the connection as excellent. This is mostly on them - in classic enterprise IT thinking, if it’s not down your job is done - but I’m somewhat disappointed that it’s even possible to co…

A 120ms should feel immediate. IIRC anything under 300ms feels instant.

300ms is a "long press" on a key on Android, and an eternity on an actual keyboard.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#368
post #334
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of it like a product funnel. If the goal is to get people to learn X, making them learn Y as a barrier first is unnecessary. You risk people abandoning the funnel that way. It's still entirely possible to learn these tools some other way.

Yes, but if learning X beforehand required learning Y, then we might be expecting the value of learning X to be the combined value of learning X + Y. It should be noted when adopting this approach, that you're lowering the expected value from the people who make it through the funnel. This may be counteracted by more people making it through the funnel, or it may not. The delta in total value is completely unknown.

Those who make it through the funnel with only X are likely more than the X+Y scenario simply because it's less learning and new concepts so drop out will be reduced. This cohort are probably more likely to go on to learn Y if we further assume it was so valuable as to have been "required". In reality requiring X+Y backfires as step 1 because X is all they want and X may be worth 10Y to the student at step 1. The value of Y may increase to >X after learning X.

When I learned basic HTML, CSS and JS. On step 1, JS had essentially no value. CSS sounded like it had value but was a bit nebulous and optional sounding. HTML seemed like an obvious requirement for building a website, so that's where I started. Once I learned HTML, the value of CSS became obvious and I pursued it. JS still seemed esoteric but later once I got HTML/CSS down and wanted to do more JS kept coming up as the solution. So I learned it too. Now, I'd say JS is way more valuable to me than HTML/CSS even though I learned it last.

This was in the 90s BTW and the path wasn't very clear back then. The first book I bought was actually a Perl book and quickly realized it was too advanced of a place for me to start. I learned about Perl after noticing the /cgi-bin/ portion of URLs and wondering what that meant. It had to be something most sites where doing similarly. This was before Google so whatever random SE I used back then told me cgi-bin was associated with Perl scripting for web development. I continued to struggle with the backend stuff (JS was FE only back then) until PHP3 came around. I'm self taught if that wasn't clear.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#369
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is one more point I would like to add to the "less friction to start." This is the killer feature for education. No more do students have to set up their own envs. Figure out PYTHONPATH. No more do educators need to debug installation issues on 3 different OSes. Teachers distribute a pre setup env which they know works for what they are trying to teach. Students go straight into writing code and building things…

Learning to set up my environment to compile my first MUD back in 1999 was my first introduction to Autotools, ./configure, make, etc. I was motivated to solve the problem because I wanted to tinker. I'm sure someone will say I'm gatekeeping, but seriously these low-level skills have served me my entire career, and I wonder what happens when every dev environment is just a docker pull away. Who learns how to build ne…

Its not necessarily gatekeeping, its just assuming that all others who come through are also motivated in the same way you are. Reality is that the same experience likely discouraged countless others and prevented them from pursuing development.

I'm the same as you, but I recognize not everyone is.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#370
This is the terrible norm in the semiconductor industry. VNCs everywhere. Almost all EDA GUIs are only designed for Red Hat or CentOS so IT makes everyone connect to a datacenter and start an X server. Having interviewed at/worked at these companies, I know that Intel, NVIDIA, and Apple all do this.

It sucks. Your productivity plummets because each keystroke lags and it makes you lose your train of thought. When there's an outage, no one can do any work at all.

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