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Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

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Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#351

Post by pradn »

aleksiy123 wrote: post #259

I would have agreed until I started working at Google. Also, you should completely avoid having Remote Desktop and instead use ssh + an editor that works with remote files. At Google we have a custom fork of VSCode running in browser and builds can either be distributed or run on my Linux VM to utilize build cache. I liked it so much I started doing a similar setup for small side projects. Just boot up the Cloud Cons…

There's not really a way around network dependence when coding at Google. You're not allowed to have code copied to a laptop, unless you get special permissions. Only teams that work on client code like desktop apps are likely to be given access. So this means to even look at code, you have to be connected to the network (via Chrome or a Fuse-based VFS.)

If you're using a desktop, there's not really a case for going offline, so being dependent on the network is ok.

I get nearly all my work done off a laptop, but I do find its weak CPU/memory a mismatch for my heavy use of Chrome.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#352

Post by hulitu »

aleksiy123 wrote: post #272
kfajdsl wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the alternative that was presented at the end of the post. He was specifically against remote desktops.

Somehow I missed it at the end. However, he mentions the code still being present on the local env and only doing builds in the cloud. I'm more in the camp of the code living in the cloud, building in the cloud, executing in the cloud. You're editor running locally providing a view of the code. Which requires some specific tooling. As always theres a sliding scale here and people need to decide what works best for th…

> I'm more in the camp of the code living in the cloud, building in the cloud, executing in the cloud.

Until you see how slow it is and you regret it.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#353

Post by dodobirdlord »

cardanome wrote: post #304
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would you even consider using a cloud desktop? I've travelled to and through countries ( e.g. in the Gulf, France, India) with my work laptop where I was deeply uncomfortable having those data on hand. Taking a clean machine and remoting into that one when needed removes a lot of paranoia points.

Why not just encrypt your hard disk? Please don't say something like you don't trust encryption. We have known cases where even state actors could not crack encrypted devices. Not to mention the remote communication you have would be easier to monitor and possibly decrypt anyway. Sure, in theory you would need a kill switch in case some special forces come through your window while you are working on you laptop and f…

Many jurisdictions around the world have laws that allow police to compel you to decrypt data, particularly at border crossings.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#354

Post by qwezxcrty »

wongarsu wrote: post #138
yrgulation wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my whole career i only had one company that provided windows machines and as expected it was a horrible place to work at. Current client wants to do the same. Coincidentally the place is becoming less desirable to work with.

Outside of silicon valley, the business world runs on Windows, no matter how cheap or expensive the machines are. Being inflexible can certainly be a red flag though.

Ironically, in the fabs making chips for the silicon valley, (almost) everything runs embedded Windows.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#356

Post by toast0 »

eloisant wrote: post #301
zasdffaa wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a bad post. The figure of 300ms was from memory. I guess it's complex but for games shmup games ( https://www.pubnub.com/blog/how-fast-is-realtime-human-perce... ): " ...for Massive Multiplayer Online Gaming (MMOG), real-time is a requirement. As online gaming matures, players flock to games with more immersive and lifelike experiences. To satisfy this demand, developers now need to produce games with very r…

> Typing should be less demanding, I'd think. Not really, unless you're the kind of guy working in Cobol and who is used to typing with latency. I've seen Cobol developers just ignoring the latency, keeping typing because they know what they've typed and it doesn't matter that it's slow to show up on screen.

Working with latency like that also requires the system to be predictable. If you're expecting auto complete but not confident in what it'll show, you've got to wait, if you're not sure if the input will be dropped if you type ahead too much, you've got to wait. If you need to click on things, especially if the targets change, lots of waiting.

If the system works well, yeah, you can type all the stuff, then wait for it to show up and confirm. 'BBS mode' as someone mentioned.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#357

Post by open-source-ux »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #231
open-source-ux wrote: post #101

Privacy is also terrible in cloud desktops (and cloud apps) but many (most?) developers do not see it as a concern. It's too late to push for privacy in cloud software - especially when it's developers who are the strongest advocates for user-tracking in cloud desktops.

Really depends on the environment. Almost all developers I know are pretty big on privacy and critical of the negative implications of users sharing too much. If you work at Google or Facebook they will plant different ideas into your brain. IT security might be slow, but they also found out that it isn't the users that pay them, it is management. Some concerns have validity, but there is also a lot of crap sold as s…

Almost all developers I know are pretty big on privacy and critical of the negative implications of users sharing too much. If you work at Google or Facebook they will plant different ideas into your brain.

I wish I could share a similar sentiment. But my impression is that privacy is low down the priority of many developers. Even this thread has 300+ comments and yet has not one single comment raising the privacy implications a cloud OS/desktop.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#358

Post by rollcat »

babypuncher wrote: post #310
zasdffaa wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 120ms should feel immediate. IIRC anything under 300ms feels instant.

This is just flat out wrong. Any seasoned gamer can feel the difference between a few tens of milliseconds. 300ms would render most video games unplayable. I see this claim a lot and it's making me want to build a website that gives you some common interactions (moving a mouse cursor, pressing a button) with adjustable latency so people can see just how big of an impact seemingly small amounts of lag have on how resp…

https://aresluna.org/keyboard-secrets/typing-delay/

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#359

Post by sbf501 »

politelemon wrote: post #332
sbf501 wrote: post #242

Who uses a physical workstation anymore? (Besides artists.) OP is suggesting a complete remote desktop for Office applications, like Video Conferencing. Ironically, for all the crap X takes, it could actually pull this off. Moreso for Wayland. I'm surprised there isn't a graphics client/server model out there as good as X after ~40 years. But I think the problem is too much layering: trying to put a VM in the cloud a…

A lot of people use workstations. As described in the article, they are more powerful and many people need that power. You may have a specific, limited set of anecdotal data that you're using to ask that question rhetorically probably?

Yep. All I have is have anecdotal data.

I believe desktops are on their way out. The trend has been happening for ~30 years. Even Android is working on virtual phone OS.

The only applications I've encountered that need a workstation are: Audio Engineering, Video Editing, and 3D mock-up (prior to sending to render farms). All arts.

What are some other examples? Everything I know about science and engineering (academic and commercial) uses a cloud/farm/distributed.

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