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SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

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Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#281

Post by ivraatiems »

ineedasername wrote: post #268

Meta’s defense on not being anti-competitive is to use the legal system to force all potential competitors to turn over incredibly sensitive information about their business & operations… how is this even allowed under the law? Can Facebook really just demand this?

That's not really what's happening here. Meta can't just steal that info; it goes to Meta's lawyers, who will review it and decide what to do based on it. Meta itself won't get to see it, necessarily, unless the court lets them.

You might say "well, you can't trust lawyers" - but most attorneys actually take the security of processes like these extremely seriously, because they'll lose their jobs (and law licenses) if they don't.

But anyway, the right thing to do if SimulaVR doesn't want to reveal this info is to oppose the subpoena and try to get it quashed. Not write angry blog posts.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#282

Post by ivraatiems »

unknownaccount wrote: post #144

This is exactly the type of thing that made me lose All faith in the US Justice System and consider defecting.

What, why? This is normal legal process. I hate Meta plenty, check my comment history, but this isn't an unusual or corrupt thing.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#283

Post by [deleted] »

tannhauser23 wrote: post #187
HillRat wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is very much the aggressor -- in response to the FTC suit, their immediate response was to try and use the courts to strong-arm hundreds of competitors into giving up massive troves of highly sensitive commercial secrets without any kind of formal protection, such as limiting document review to FB's outside counsel. It's ridiculous, it's abusive, it's overbroad, and it's transparently an effort to burden Fac…

Welcome to the American legal system. Facebook did nothing wrong here. When I was an attorney and involved with these kinds of subpoenas, we always worked with the third-parties to make document production less burdensome for them. SimulaVR should be working with Meta's attorneys on this instead of throwing a hissy fit online.

[deleted]

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#284

Post by TheCoelacanth »

tannhauser23 wrote: post #197
georgewsinger wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and just want to reiterate what was written in the article: we genuinely feel no animosity towards Meta and its gaming headsets. We don't even feel animosity that they have leveraged their economies of scale to provide them very cheaply to consumers (something we aren't able to do yet[1]). We just disagree with their product vision, and are pursuing our own. We also think subpoenaing us for this case seems u…

GET OFF THE INTERNET AND HIRE A LAWYER TO HANDLE THIS You guys want to run a business, well, start acting like businessmen. Your company will occasionally get subpoenaed or - heaven forbid! - be sued. You got a third-party subpoena for documents in a litigation. Guess what, this will happen from time to time. Your attorney should be negotiating with Meta to figure out what documents/testimony your company will provid…

Presumably they did get a lawyer, but I don't see why they should get off the Internet.

If Meta is going to use the legal system to bully tiny startups that tangentially compete with them, they might as well take a bit of a PR hit for doing it.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#285

Post by MadcapJake »

georgewsinger wrote: post #51
cableshaft wrote: post #40

>We're don't view ourselves in competition with Meta >...Meta sells reasonably good gaming headsets to customers who want to be entertained in VR; we're selling general-purpose productivity devices which are aimed at replacing PCs and laptops. Hate to break it to you, but if you don't think that Mark Zuckerberg is actively trying to create VR devices that are general-purpose productivity devices aimed at replacing PC…

We understand Meta sometimes future projects that their devices will have broad office applications, but we're skeptical it has any teeth. Consider that Atari tried to compete with office PCs in the early 80s with their 8-bit family, and failed: https://images.fastcompany.net/image/upload/w_596,c_limit,q_... It's hard to focus on multiple things at once, and we're skeptical that the bureaucratic forces in play at a l…

"Do a good job" is different from intent to compete. Horizon Workrooms, keyboard passthrough, and multi-app support screams non-entertainment functionality. And that's just what's been released pre-Quest Pro...

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#286

Post by JamesianP »

jijji wrote: post #250
kanetw wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. It's easily going to be in the 5 digits.

you can call an attorney and pay an hourly fee usually between 100 - 400/hr to talk with an attorney about your case or pay a retainer fee for 10 hours... attorneys that throw out 5 digit numbers when asked for a price are rip offs

Often I've gotten the initial consultation/advice for free on how to do it yourself. The point of lawyer is protecting you when you are in danger, and in my experience they're happy to tell you that you don't need a lawyer here, and give some general tips on the process.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#287

Post by 0x457 »

robg wrote: post #235

The problem here is the FTC trying to regulate a nascent industry by fiat. The startup is caught up in the silliness of trying to define competition in an area of trade that doesn’t really exist yet. Exactly when the FTC should go find something better to do, like health claims in supplements.

> Exactly when the FTC should go find something better to do, like health claims in supplements.

That's FDA.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#288

Post by awinter-py »

ianal but if I were drafting simula's motion to quash, I would mention that the categories of information fb wants are confidential or trade secrets under most employment agreements, including probably fb's

and that rule 45 requires the court to quash if the subpoena is for 'privileged or other protected matter'

and if you can prove undue burden you can sanction their firm (in theory at least)

(could also just refresh the northern district's efile until big G responds, then steal theirs)

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#289

Post by whateveracct »

tannhauser23 wrote: post #232
kanetw wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We aren't throwing a hissy fit lol. We're just stating the facts and are working with our lawyers to resolve this.

You made a site complaining about the subpoena and came to Hacker News to complain about it some more. Look, I get that you guys are a small shop but you should not be surprised to be asked to provide evidence in an antitrust litigation over the VR market. I'm guessing you haven't seen a subpoena before - they are all like this, and your attorneys will be able to negotiate something much less burdensome. So get off H…

hah these sorts of comments definitely smell like there are HNers who likes FAANG money and wanna defend their patrons

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#290

Post by alasdair_ »

Bloedcoin wrote: post #169
sbarre wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think Google's biggest sin is killing Stadia, you stopped paying attention over a decade ago.

I'm following well enough. Have you checked the last Google Io? They don't hide that they collect data. Android is still open. You can't expect Google to just give you a android distribution without their stuff for free just because. You still can use it.

>They don't hide that they collect data.

They have a mode in Chrome called "incognito mode" that, to the average person, strongly implies it doesn't collect data, yet of course it does.

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