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Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

mjg59.dreamwidth.org

341–350 of 479 posts

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#341
post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, how much are you paying a month using Cloud Console that way?

Why would they be paying for it out of pocket?

I don't know about Google, but as far as I heard, AWS folks pay for their own AWS resources for side projects, at least.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 120ms should feel immediate. IIRC anything under 300ms feels instant.

This is just flat out wrong. Any seasoned gamer can feel the difference between a few tens of milliseconds. 300ms would render most video games unplayable. I see this claim a lot and it's making me want to build a website that gives you some common interactions (moving a mouse cursor, pressing a button) with adjustable latency so people can see just how big of an impact seemingly small amounts of lag have on how resp…

Then have an estimation challenge mode, where it picks a random latency and you have to guess within 50ms what it is. Seriously though, that sounds both fun and useful.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#343

It’d be nice if the author mentioned what cloud desktops and how good people think they are. Don’t tell me it’s worse than I think without specifying what you think I think! I know numerous gaming companies that swear by Parsec. Except the author doesn’t appear to be talking about Parsec tier cloud desktops. But then again it’s not clear what the author is talking about

Yep, we have remote developers using parsec with unreal engine, maya, 3ds, etc.

Author seems to be stuck in the tech mindset of 5 years ago.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#344

I would have agreed until I started working at Google. Also, you should completely avoid having Remote Desktop and instead use ssh + an editor that works with remote files. At Google we have a custom fork of VSCode running in browser and builds can either be distributed or run on my Linux VM to utilize build cache. I liked it so much I started doing a similar setup for small side projects. Just boot up the Cloud Cons…

There is one more point I would like to add to the "less friction to start." This is the killer feature for education. No more do students have to set up their own envs. Figure out PYTHONPATH. No more do educators need to debug installation issues on 3 different OSes. Teachers distribute a pre setup env which they know works for what they are trying to teach. Students go straight into writing code and building things…

> There is one more point I would like to add to the "less friction to start." This is the killer feature for education

So now the children have 2 entities spying on them: the school and the cloud provider.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#345

I don't get the use case. Why would you even consider using a cloud desktop? Even a very low-spec laptop is going to run a simple graphical desktop environment like Xfce just fine. Watching a youtube video, browsing the web and even video conferencing can be handled with any new-ish laptop. And in reality, you still want a reliable laptop with decent keyboard, long battery life, good display and so on. So you won't e…

When your game developer has and needs a $4k workstation, and they work from home half the week. No reason to buy them another machine and have them maintain two seperate workspaces, we just give them parsec.

All our staff seem happy and we don't get complaints. Author hasn't tried modern tools it seems.

Another use case: mobile people with laptops, who sometimes want to hop in to a play test or show a game off to a vendor. No need for them to have a gaming laptop 99% of the time, when an X1 carbon + parsec to a beefy box work fine.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 120ms should feel immediate. IIRC anything under 300ms feels instant.

This is just flat out wrong. Any seasoned gamer can feel the difference between a few tens of milliseconds. 300ms would render most video games unplayable. I see this claim a lot and it's making me want to build a website that gives you some common interactions (moving a mouse cursor, pressing a button) with adjustable latency so people can see just how big of an impact seemingly small amounts of lag have on how resp…

Just running my display at 60Hz vs 30Hz is enough. The pointer feels extremely laggy at 30Hz, despite that being a higher refresh rate than a movie.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#347
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to do that, but my laptop's and workstation's state inevitably get out of sync leading up to "wait why doesn't this work ... spend a couple of minutes .. ah yes I did X on the other device". (Before someone suggest "use docker": then I'd need a more powerful workstation and laptop :-) And VNCing into my workstation from the laptop has all the drawbacks that Matthew described in the article.

> (Before someone suggest "use docker": then I'd need a more powerful workstation and laptop :-) Why do you believe that to be the case? Docker performance overhead is so minimal I highly doubt you'd be able to tell any difference compared to native processes.

I currently work on a project that involves 28 docker containers (edit: on Linux, so no extra VM overhead like on a Mac), and I definitely can tell the difference compared to native processes.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#348

I would have agreed until I started working at Google. Also, you should completely avoid having Remote Desktop and instead use ssh + an editor that works with remote files. At Google we have a custom fork of VSCode running in browser and builds can either be distributed or run on my Linux VM to utilize build cache. I liked it so much I started doing a similar setup for small side projects. Just boot up the Cloud Cons…

There is one more point I would like to add to the "less friction to start." This is the killer feature for education. No more do students have to set up their own envs. Figure out PYTHONPATH. No more do educators need to debug installation issues on 3 different OSes. Teachers distribute a pre setup env which they know works for what they are trying to teach. Students go straight into writing code and building things…

The flip side of this is that it's hard to do anything beyond the standard library for some languages. Using PythonAnywhere is great for std-in/std-out programs, but I couldn't figure out a way to import graphics libraries and such. The web is pretty limiting when teaching with anything other than JS/HTML/CSS.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#349

The later versions of RDP is miles ahead of any other remote desktop protocol in my experience. I used to use it for gaming years ago (from Windows machine to Mac) - it really isn't that bad if latency and bandwidth is acceptable. As others say, it is very hard sometimes to detect what is local and what isn't with RDP. Everything seems to just work, even using the Mac client. Compare this with everything else I've us…

RDP is indeed highly performant, but the experience may highly depends on the latency.

I'm working daily in a nanofabrication center and routinely RDP to workstations running Windows Server from computers with 12 years old i5 (which is supposed to be single purpose for tool billing). I wrote code with VSCode and Matlab, view GDS with KLayout, run ANSYS and COMSOL. Everything works so well even with all the 3D, despite of the ancientness of the terminal computer. However this depends on a decent LAN with a When working at home through VPN, the experience degraded to fluent but with seldomly noticeable latency. And when using the shitty public wifi at train station, then every keystroke take a noticeable time to echo...

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would you even consider using a cloud desktop? I've travelled to and through countries ( e.g. in the Gulf, France, India) with my work laptop where I was deeply uncomfortable having those data on hand. Taking a clean machine and remoting into that one when needed removes a lot of paranoia points.

Why not just encrypt your hard disk? Please don't say something like you don't trust encryption. We have known cases where even state actors could not crack encrypted devices. Not to mention the remote communication you have would be easier to monitor and possibly decrypt anyway. Sure, in theory you would need a kill switch in case some special forces come through your window while you are working on you laptop and f…

Why not just encrypt your hard disk?

While this is a good idea, note that in some countries it is an offence to not hand over keys or passwords when requested (or can rapidly become one - like in the UK) so not carrying data with you in the first place can defend against that.

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