Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

gizmodo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 327 posts

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#111

Post by conanbatt »

jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

It's the exact opposite - this was done in the legal system, not in the defi one.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#112

Post by ajross »

pazimzadeh wrote: post #75
belltaco wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2022/09/fact-check-donald...

"according to estimates we cannot track 2.3 trillion dollars"

The quote was "According to SOME estimates ...", FWIW. But even your phrasing is a far cry from the attempt to infer that it was "stolen", which is the clear implication of the hyberbole above.

And in fact that was spun too, because (as you read farther down the linked debunking) the original quote was "$2.3 trillion were unsupported by reliable explanatory information and audit trails or were made to invalid general ledger accounts", which doesn't even support "cannot track". In fact, per that statement, we can track it, we know where it went, we just don't know why or in some cases to precise recipients.

Those are accounting failings. They're bad. A system with failings like that is certainly going to be subject to exploitation and fraud. For sure they should fix it (and to some extend did). But to claim that all of that $2.3T was fraudulent is just a plain lie.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#113

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

jedberg wrote: post #84
pazimzadeh wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. It's literally perfect for finance (especially once multi-sig wallets become common). If Celsius had been more all-in on crypto tech, they would have had FEWER problems. Also, I don't know any law that exempts crypto companies from being taken to court.

> Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. The other important aspect of a working financial system is the ability for a 3rd party (courts/law enforcement) to undo transactions. Crypto makes that impossible without the cooperation of the offender.

Many traditional types of payments, such as wire transfers, cash etc. are also non-undoable. Incarceration and a variety of other tools at law enforcement's disposal are used to recover funds.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#114

Post by ajross »

beders wrote: post #59
pazimzadeh wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? If that was true then it would be services like AAVE or Uniswap which would be bankrupt, not the centralized finance Celsius. The idea that the traditional legal system prevents funny business with money is naive. 9/10/2001: Rumsfeld says $2.3 TRILLION Missing from Pentagon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU The Pentagon’s $35 Trillion Accounting Black Hole https://www.yahoo.com/video/pentagon-35-trilli…

How much money have you lost from your private bank account...?

Oh, come on. Have you never lost a check? Never seen a credit card bill you can't explain? Never had an argument with your spouse over what the $2k at Costco was for? Never gotten a bill and had trouble figuring out if you've paid it or not?

Accounting failings happen to all of us. The only people with perfect bank accounts are either (1) accountants themselves or (2) never really bothered to look.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#115

Post by seaourfreed »

eropple wrote: post #76
pazimzadeh wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. It's literally perfect for finance (especially once multi-sig wallets become common). If Celsius had been more all-in on crypto tech, they would have had FEWER problems. Also, I don't know any law that exempts crypto companies from being taken to court.

> How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. It's literally perfect for finance Because modern legal systems and modern economies work on the assumption that malfeasance is a reason to un-do what crypto systems want to make indelible. This is an obvious and obviously good thing to people who are not absorbed by this odd groupthink. That impedance mismatch is an excellent indicator of why…

DoJ shifts 150 prosectors to crypto cases. A bet at least one will be looking into this.

https://news.bitcoin.com/doj-launches-network-of-over-150-fe...

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#116

Post by cronix »

jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

> The reason fiat money works

It also worked before the US went to a fiat currency in 1971 when Nixon took us off the gold standard. It also allowed for massive deficits because before they couldn't spend what they didn't physically have and now they can just print it without gold backing it.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#117

Post by daniel-cussen »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #6

People surprised by this might be the sort of people who try to cuddle a porcupine and are surprised when they get stabbed. That said, we have laws designed to protect stupid people from those who prey on the stupid, so I hope these execs get the book thrown at them.

No post body was provided.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#118

Post by qzx_pierri »

umeshunni wrote: post #80
jqpabc123 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What it's doing is giving techno nerds a free crash course in government, monetary policy and regulation --- or rather the lack thereof.

"techno nerds" what does this have to do with EDM?

I wouldn't lump Techno in with 'EDM'

Techno = A movement that is largely an exercise in pushing computers/midi to their limit while creating inventive music.

EDM = event driven marketing. pop music with a 4x4 kick drum.

...Yeah I know, semantics.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#119

Post by Bloedcoin »

cronix wrote: post #116
jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

> The reason fiat money works It also worked before the US went to a fiat currency in 1971 when Nixon took us off the gold standard. It also allowed for massive deficits because before they couldn't spend what they didn't physically have and now they can just print it without gold backing it.

Which was necessary for the economic revolution.

Balancing the money amount to the workforce.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#120

Post by pazimzadeh »

bogomipz wrote: post #93
jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

>"The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -- because of the threat of violence." How many people were prosecuted for the 2008 financial crisis though? Neither did the "…

Exactly. The people who benefit the most from the current system are the already rich, who can afford to the legal fees and come up with creative defenses.

Crypto also benefits the rich (like everything), but not as disproportionately as the current legal system.

This debate reminds me of the nature vs nurture debate in biology. It's a mirage. In reality, it's nature via nurture. Similarly, there is no inherent divide between government and crypto. One can extend the other.

Post reply on HN