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SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

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Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#261

Post by gbasp »

tannhauser23 wrote: post #212
Huh1337 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what if they don't have the funds? What if they have only so much for this but then have to close the business down because of it? It's a small startup.

You. Work. With. The. Attorneys. Why is this so hard to grasp. This subpoena is to get certain market information. SimulaVR can negotiate with Meta to provide the information in a way that's not super burdensome for them. I did this all the time when I was a lawyer. SimulaVR is a FRIENDLY WITNESS for Meta, since they can presumably provide evidence that Meta operates in a competitive VR market. This means Meta's lawy…

If Meta is so friendly they should pay the legal fees for the lawyers that they're forcing Simula to hire.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#262

Post by Animats »

greensoap wrote: post #123
cldellow wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? It is literally coming from Meta. That's what the subpoena and court filings that are screenshotted on that page show. Meta sought the subpoena, the court granted it, and now Simula has to testify at a deposition where the questions will be asked by Meta. And... it sort of has to work this way? It's not the job of the court to do Meta or FTC's advocacy for them.

Federal Courts don't usually grant a subpoena. Notably, the notice of third-party subpoeonas from this case wasn't even filed in the case. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/64436614/federal-trade-... Rather a lawyer that is admitted to the case uses his power as a representative to serve a subpoena. These are usually NOT reviewed by the judge or court first. The person receiving a subpoena can ask the court to qua…

> quash the subpoena

Yes. Obviously they need a lawyer. But they should be able to get this quashed. At least narrowed and moved somewhere more convenient.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#263

Post by tick_tock_tick »

dtech wrote: post #128
colejohnson66 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one is accused of antitrust practices (as Meta is by the FTC), your defense is to show that there's actually competition. It's not that Meta that wants the documents for corporate espionage (or whatever), but that they want to prove that SimulaVR is competing just fine in the market that contains Meta. This is explained in the article, which many here clearly didn't read past the headline. This is roughly the same…

In the US legal system a non-government entity can force any 3rd party to spend time and money for their benefit? That seems pretty weird.

What legal system doesn't have this feature? Seriously where are you from that this isn't how it works?

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#265

Post by danielmarkbruce »

Meta is allowed to defend themselves against lawsuits. SimulaVR is a startup in the space. They have a shot in VR, or at least believe they do. SimulaVR a great example for Meta to use to defend themselves against a stupid lawsuit.

The FTC shouldn't be bringing this case. VR is still up for grabs. Defining the relevant market as the "dedicated fitness virtual reality app market" is questionable, and the idea it "proves the value of virtual reality" is nonsense.

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/07/...

The idea that meta have some dominant position that can't be overcome is like suggesting Excite or Altavista had a dominant position in search that couldn't be overcome in the 90's, or MySpace in social in the early 00's. It's too early to call this market "won".

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#266

Post by [deleted] »

onepointsixC wrote: post #122
dsign wrote: post #27

This is not Meta demanding to see some privilege information that exists in Simula's drawers, but rather commandeering the entire competing organization to do market research for Meta. It is clever and evil, and nothing anybody says after this will make me think that Meta is not anti-competitive nor that they have an once of ethics. As a consumer, I doubt I will ever again consider their VR products; I rather give my…

This seems like a wildly emotional response that is completely out of line with what is being asked. The FTC is suing Meta, and it has a right to get other companies to admit that they are in fact competitors to Meta in the VR Space. SimulaVR is being pretty bad faith in claiming that: "Meta sells reasonably good gaming headsets to customers who want to be entertained in VR; we're selling general-purpose productivity…

[deleted]

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#267

Post by MrStonedOne »

tannhauser23 wrote: post #187
HillRat wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is very much the aggressor -- in response to the FTC suit, their immediate response was to try and use the courts to strong-arm hundreds of competitors into giving up massive troves of highly sensitive commercial secrets without any kind of formal protection, such as limiting document review to FB's outside counsel. It's ridiculous, it's abusive, it's overbroad, and it's transparently an effort to burden Fac…

Welcome to the American legal system. Facebook did nothing wrong here. When I was an attorney and involved with these kinds of subpoenas, we always worked with the third-parties to make document production less burdensome for them. SimulaVR should be working with Meta's attorneys on this instead of throwing a hissy fit online.

>When I was an attorney and involved with these kinds of subpoenas, we always worked with the third-parties to make document production less burdensome for them.

>SimulaVR should be working with Meta's attorneys on this instead of throwing a hissy fit online.

Question:

Is meta's lawyers bound in any way to treat simulaVR the same way you treated your subpoenaees?

I don't even care if they do, or would, the question is, are they legally bound to do so? If not, that's a systemic issue.

I suspect the answer is no they aren't, and the burden is on the subpoenaees to convince the court to limit the burdensomeness of the subpoena, which is itself a burden that is unacceptable.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#268

Post by ineedasername »

Meta’s defense on not being anti-competitive is to use the legal system to force all potential competitors to turn over incredibly sensitive information about their business & operations…

how is this even allowed under the law? Can Facebook really just demand this?

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#269

Post by vineyardmike »

bin_bash wrote: post #100
georgewsinger wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We understand Meta sometimes future projects that their devices will have broad office applications, but we're skeptical it has any teeth. Consider that Atari tried to compete with office PCs in the early 80s with their 8-bit family, and failed: https://images.fastcompany.net/image/upload/w_596,c_limit,q_... It's hard to focus on multiple things at once, and we're skeptical that the bureaucratic forces in play at a l…

Ben Thompson is fairly bullish on Enterprise Metaverses after having used Workrooms: https://stratechery.com/2021/enterprise-metaverses-horizon-w... > I don’t want to go too far given I’ve only tried Workrooms out once, but this feels like something real. And, just as importantly, there is, thanks to COVID, a real use case. Of course companies will need to be convinced, and hardware will need to be bought, but that’s…

I’m a lot less important than Ben but just wanted to +1 that it’s pretty compelling use case once experiencing it. It’s not there yet, mostly due to resolution issues and long term comfort issues, but it’s close enough to show it’s absolutely viable.

I bought the quest2 since it was cheap as a pandemic entertainment device and while I never play it, I regularly wish for a VR monitor (eg a high res nreal air)

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