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Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

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Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#101

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

The two are not mutually exclusive. Gold, for example, is not backed by people with guns. However a financial and legal system can be built on top of it, in fact it was build on top of it until 50 years ago.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#102

Post by pazimzadeh »

jedberg wrote: post #84
pazimzadeh wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. It's literally perfect for finance (especially once multi-sig wallets become common). If Celsius had been more all-in on crypto tech, they would have had FEWER problems. Also, I don't know any law that exempts crypto companies from being taken to court.

> Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. The other important aspect of a working financial system is the ability for a 3rd party (courts/law enforcement) to undo transactions. Crypto makes that impossible without the cooperation of the offender.

There are many ways to implement undo-ing transactions on the blockchain. One is with multi-sig wallets.

There are also others: https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/09/28/stanford-proposal-f...

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#103

Post by tlb »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #101
jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

The two are not mutually exclusive. Gold, for example, is not backed by people with guns. However a financial and legal system can be built on top of it, in fact it was build on top of it until 50 years ago.

Sure it is. If someone steals your gold, you can call the people with guns to arrest them and get it back to you (often). It doesn't have to work 100% of the time to be an effective deterrent.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#104

Post by TipiKoivisto »

atty wrote: post #3

The irony of the CEO’s t-shirt in that photo is… staggering.

I was about to write that but let me just copy-paste the first comment from the article: "Banks are not your friends. But obviously Crypto companies are not your friends either. "

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#105

Post by pazimzadeh »

TomSwirly wrote: post #88
pazimzadeh wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. It's literally perfect for finance (especially once multi-sig wallets become common). If Celsius had been more all-in on crypto tech, they would have had FEWER problems. Also, I don't know any law that exempts crypto companies from being taken to court.

> Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. No, that was invented in the late 70s, with the Merkle tree. The whole wildly expensive consensus phase in cryptocurrencies is absolutely not needed for immutable ledgers. > It's literally perfect for finance People have been using digital certificates in finance since the 80s. When there is a single source of truth, which is the case for almost all finance…

>> Also, I don't know any law that exempts crypto companies from being taken to court

> Who said that? No one. No one at all.

jedberg: "[crypto] ... prevents a lot of funny business because people are afraid of getting caught and being put in jail" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33110400

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#106

Post by datadata »

dan_quixote wrote: post #64
datadata wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that existing financial institutions have put this type of scam entirely in the past? Because they certainly have not.

I don't feel like that's implied in the comment at all.

Doesn't "past history" imply something that is no longer happening?

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#107

Post by [deleted] »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #101
jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

The two are not mutually exclusive. Gold, for example, is not backed by people with guns. However a financial and legal system can be built on top of it, in fact it was build on top of it until 50 years ago.

[deleted]

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#108

Post by dlubarov »

lottin wrote: post #86
pazimzadeh wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. It's literally perfect for finance (especially once multi-sig wallets become common). If Celsius had been more all-in on crypto tech, they would have had FEWER problems. Also, I don't know any law that exempts crypto companies from being taken to court.

Financing requires seizable assets, which means it's unimplementable using blackchain-based digital assets and smart contracts.

There are plenty of DeFi systems where (crypto)assets are used as collateral - see MakerDAO, Compound, Aave, etc.

(Granted, you can't deposit a house or car as collateral, if that's what you're getting at?)

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#109

Post by ipaddr »

eropple wrote: post #76
pazimzadeh wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. It's literally perfect for finance (especially once multi-sig wallets become common). If Celsius had been more all-in on crypto tech, they would have had FEWER problems. Also, I don't know any law that exempts crypto companies from being taken to court.

> How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. It's literally perfect for finance Because modern legal systems and modern economies work on the assumption that malfeasance is a reason to un-do what crypto systems want to make indelible. This is an obvious and obviously good thing to people who are not absorbed by this odd groupthink. That impedance mismatch is an excellent indicator of why…

The legal system can only be used to settle payment disputes when parties are known. Buying a tv from the back of a van going home to find out it doesn't work will leave you with little legal recourse. The legal system can only work with entities within it's power. Get ripped off from a foreign supplier can require a lawsuit if available to you in an unfriendly legal system. Cryto can solve these trustless entities problems.

Bank of America can do very little for your Russian payment disputes.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#110

Post by pazimzadeh »

TomSwirly wrote: post #88
pazimzadeh wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. It's literally perfect for finance (especially once multi-sig wallets become common). If Celsius had been more all-in on crypto tech, they would have had FEWER problems. Also, I don't know any law that exempts crypto companies from being taken to court.

> Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. No, that was invented in the late 70s, with the Merkle tree. The whole wildly expensive consensus phase in cryptocurrencies is absolutely not needed for immutable ledgers. > It's literally perfect for finance People have been using digital certificates in finance since the 80s. When there is a single source of truth, which is the case for almost all finance…

>> Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased.

> No, that was invented in the late 70s, with the Merkle tree.

Ok then, crypto is like ink that cannot be erased, with distributed copies throughout the world.

My point is that like ink it's a technology like any other, that can be applied to various problems by various entities including the government. Crypto is not automatically subversive or incompatible with law/finance.

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