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The life-changing effects of hallucinations

bbc.com

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Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#21

Post by CabSauce »

browheresmychar wrote: post #17
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a shame you didn’t actually read the article. You might have contributed something useful. For the others who ware intrigued but don’t want to read, the article is mostly about research into the mechanisms creating the hallucinations. Neuroscientists have known since the 60s that you can make people hallucinate shapes and colours by exposing them to strobing lights. It seems that syncing the lights with some of…

I read the whole article and yes the dream machine is interesting. I'm just commenting because there have been multiple articles on front page today about hallucinogens and the standard thought on HN is that these things are beneficial to society. I simply disagree.

Fortunately, we don't have to rely on opinions for things. We have science!

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#22

Post by furyofantares »

I'm going through John Vervaeke's "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis" on youtube and it's fascinating. One thing he means to answer is: why do we have these altered consciousness experiences where we come back from it, and unlike most altered experiences (being drunk; dreaming), we say THAT was more real than THIS? And then profoundly change our lives in a positive way?

Especially since the actual contents of the altered state are usually known falsehoods, and people come back with contradictory propositions (I saw God vs. I saw there is no god.)

He has some very plausible explanations for why these experiences can be hugely positively transformative despite the actual contents of them (and propositional beliefs stemming from them) being largely meaningless.

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#23

Post by AnthonBerg »

drcongo wrote: post #12

The life-changing effect of LSD for me was a profound shift in the clarity of my thinking, like gaining a new superpower (compared to my prior, foggy brain) overnight. I'll always be thankful for that first trip.

As far as I understand the science, that clarity is in part the perceived experience of reduced inflammation in the central nervous system. Psychedelics are anti-inflammatory. (Profoundly so. The anti-inflammatory effect is orders of magnitude stronger than the effects on the mind, i.e. a dose orders of magnitude smaller than we can directly perceive has a strong anti-inflammatory effect. Which is fascinating as these substances are well known for their unusual potency at changing perception and cognition.)

As one start onto the trail of established science on the phenomenon, here’s a review paper from 2015: Psychedelics and immunomodulation: novel approaches and therapeutic opportunities – https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2015.0035...

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#24

Post by furyofantares »

kordlessagain wrote: post #16

If you have Aphantasia, you probably won’t visualize on hallucinogens.

I didn't always have aphantasia, but I believe I ended up with it because when I was very young I had intrusive visual thoughts and developed a habit of blocking them out. By the time I was 30 I could barely remember being able to visualize things in my head.

I was 33 the first time so tried cannabis and I had vivid, colorful visualizations. It was intensely satisfying. I've since regained some ability to visualize in an un-altered state.

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#25

Post by prhn »

drcongo wrote: post #12

The life-changing effect of LSD for me was a profound shift in the clarity of my thinking, like gaining a new superpower (compared to my prior, foggy brain) overnight. I'll always be thankful for that first trip.

That was my exact experience as well. I think the first time I studied anything with diligence was during a trip, and I've taken that ability with me to current day.

I also feel immensely thankful for it. I nearly dropped out of high school and I bounced around manual labor jobs for a few years. I'm so far away from that fate now it's sometimes hard to reconcile internally.

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#26

Post by giantg2 »

furyofantares wrote: post #22

I'm going through John Vervaeke's "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis" on youtube and it's fascinating. One thing he means to answer is: why do we have these altered consciousness experiences where we come back from it, and unlike most altered experiences (being drunk; dreaming), we say THAT was more real than THIS? And then profoundly change our lives in a positive way? Especially since the actual contents of the alt…

My thoughts are that the facts don't matter. Even in the real world, people hold beliefs that are largely irrelevant to the facts. For stuff like being drunk or having dreams, your memory of them tends to be even worse rest in other scenarios. It's hard to form a solid belief around something so unclear. It's much easier to form a belief around a clearly remembered falsehood. I find it similar to how friendships are formed - it's less about what you have in common and more about shared context. Clear memory of that context is a prerequisite.

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#27

Post by dj_mc_merlin »

Very fun thing that can happen on heavy doses of hallucinogens: seeing your thoughts visually. His experience of seeings geometric patterns that shift depending on what/how you're thinking is what I've seen too. It's like putting every thought in a multidimensional space that includes color, and going around it while thinking. Similar thoughts or thought threads look similar in color, shape and texture, while jumping from one thought to another can be almost strobe-like. Going deep into a thought can make it materialize from the weird neon geometry mash to something resembling hyperrealism.

I didn't find it a very spiritual experience actually. It was like playing with the visual part of the brain and seeing what the hardwired stuff is, felt very physical. The Dreamachine seems similar in that regard.

Another weird parallel: when AIs create those pictures of stuff that looks like something but under further analysis is just random parts of different things it's similar to the hyperrealistic bits' texture.

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#28

Post by giantg2 »

fknorangesite wrote: post #15
zwieback wrote: post #13

I'm a bit surprised about the enthusiasm for legalizing hallucinogenic drugs. My homestate of Oregon has legalized them (in certain settings) now but if hallucinogenic drugs are as powerful and life-changing as advocates claim I would think that we should have a good medical and legal framework for their use.

> I would think that we should have a good medical and legal framework for their use. That's...that's what legalizing is.

To be fair, a big part of the movement is simply about decriminalizing, which is different than legalizing (at least as is implied in this discussion).

Re: The life-changing effects of hallucinations

#29

Post by radicaldreamer »

AnthonBerg wrote: post #23
drcongo wrote: post #12

The life-changing effect of LSD for me was a profound shift in the clarity of my thinking, like gaining a new superpower (compared to my prior, foggy brain) overnight. I'll always be thankful for that first trip.

As far as I understand the science, that clarity is in part the perceived experience of reduced inflammation in the central nervous system. Psychedelics are anti-inflammatory. (Profoundly so. The anti-inflammatory effect is orders of magnitude stronger than the effects on the mind, i.e. a dose orders of magnitude smaller than we can directly perceive has a strong anti-inflammatory effect. Which is fascinating as thes…

This is interesting when combined with this study which showed that ketamine therapy with rapamycin was more effective (both are very strong anti-inflammatory drugs), despite the hypothesis being that rapamycin would inhibit the effects of ketamine due to MTORC suppression.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0644-9

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