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SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

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Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#201

Post by MikusR »

kanetw wrote: post #148
WaitWaitWha wrote: post #146

You need to get a lawyer. I am not a lawyer, but I annoy them daily. You can decide not to appear, but you can be held in contempt. Note that your subpoena comes from the court, not Meta. You need to get the lawyer to negotiate down what to provide. The first salvo is always everything, including the kitchen sink. You need a lawyer to know to whom to talk to. You need to get the lawyer to negotiate the expenses assoc…

First thing we did was get a lawyer.

And they suggested that you write a blog post?

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#202

Post by MikusR »

whateveracct wrote: post #154
nailer wrote: post #143

Off topic but their product seems awesome - VR computers specifically designed for coding, including displaying small text, running Linux, etc. Beats working from a coding laptop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x293SiEdv4M&t=25s

It really is - and on the topic of "competition".. Meta is not a competitor to Simula and honestly never will be because they will never give you Freedom to run Linux and hack to your heart's content. But Simula is a competitor to Meta in that their existence gives people like me a serious (non-toy) VR headset they'd actually buy. So the reason Meta has competition from Simula is because they're terrible from a consu…

Quest runs Android and Android run on Linux.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#203

Post by [deleted] »

sophrocyne wrote: post #131
time_to_smile wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nor that they have an once of ethics It still find it odd that people think large corporations actively engage in ethics in any other capacity than for PR and manipulating public opinion. I have never in my life seen anything other than the smallest of private companies make a decision based on "ethical" reasons where there was a competing financial reason. Can you recall, over your entire career, where a product d…

> Can you recall, over your entire career, where a product decision was made for ethical (rather than purely PR or legal) reasons? Yes, because I made them. As a nation built on capitalism, it is those who are able to influence the decisions of corporations that bear the burden and responsibility of the decisions made by those corporations. Whether those individuals are held accountable or not is irrelevant to the fa…

[deleted]

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#204

Post by michaelt »

jdgoesmarching wrote: post #111
colejohnson66 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one is accused of antitrust practices (as Meta is by the FTC), your defense is to show that there's actually competition. It's not that Meta that wants the documents for corporate espionage (or whatever), but that they want to prove that SimulaVR is competing just fine in the market that contains Meta. This is explained in the article, which many here clearly didn't read past the headline. This is roughly the same…

Yeah, and we’re reacting to how crazy it is that Meta’s competitors are required to divulge internal documents to Meta so Meta can make a case that they aren’t anticompetitive. > It's not that Meta that wants the documents for corporate espionage Yes I’m sure we all trust Meta will behave ethically when given private information.

I believe the stance of the justice system is that Facebook's lawyers will behave ethically with the information because it's a professional obligation for lawyers.

You and I might see that as a laughable claim - unfortunately the justice system is run entirely by lawyers.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#205

Post by make3 »

onepointsixC wrote: post #122
dsign wrote: post #27

This is not Meta demanding to see some privilege information that exists in Simula's drawers, but rather commandeering the entire competing organization to do market research for Meta. It is clever and evil, and nothing anybody says after this will make me think that Meta is not anti-competitive nor that they have an once of ethics. As a consumer, I doubt I will ever again consider their VR products; I rather give my…

This seems like a wildly emotional response that is completely out of line with what is being asked. The FTC is suing Meta, and it has a right to get other companies to admit that they are in fact competitors to Meta in the VR Space. SimulaVR is being pretty bad faith in claiming that: "Meta sells reasonably good gaming headsets to customers who want to be entertained in VR; we're selling general-purpose productivity…

I feel like they should pay SimulaVR's lawyer fees though. Why would SimulaVR be forced to spend resources to help Meta prove it's not a monopoly

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#206

Post by benreesman »

tannhauser23 wrote: post #197
georgewsinger wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and just want to reiterate what was written in the article: we genuinely feel no animosity towards Meta and its gaming headsets. We don't even feel animosity that they have leveraged their economies of scale to provide them very cheaply to consumers (something we aren't able to do yet[1]). We just disagree with their product vision, and are pursuing our own. We also think subpoenaing us for this case seems u…

GET OFF THE INTERNET AND HIRE A LAWYER TO HANDLE THIS You guys want to run a business, well, start acting like businessmen. Your company will occasionally get subpoenaed or - heaven forbid! - be sued. You got a third-party subpoena for documents in a litigation. Guess what, this will happen from time to time. Your attorney should be negotiating with Meta to figure out what documents/testimony your company will provid…

The parent is already going grey via downvotes, which I think is a bit harsh: "hire a lawyer and let them hire PR people" is in fact generally good advice.

This thread is 1 part "this isn't the place to litigate this" and 2 parts "i've got a beef with big tech", so it's unlikely to be germane and therefore the all caps are likely to be a bit much.

But it's good advice generally, and that shouldn't be downvoted.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#207

Post by musingsole »

joelfried wrote: post #65
aliqot wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

green name has a point though.

The way to get better behavior is to point out bad behavior wherever you see it, not shrug and treat it like a broken stair.

> not shrug and treat it like a broken stair.

When all but 2 of the stairs are broken in a flight -- discussing the particularities of this break or that isn't very meaningful or productive. Perhaps the 2 functional stairs are worth another look instead.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#208

Post by kanetw »

tannhauser23 wrote: post #187
HillRat wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is very much the aggressor -- in response to the FTC suit, their immediate response was to try and use the courts to strong-arm hundreds of competitors into giving up massive troves of highly sensitive commercial secrets without any kind of formal protection, such as limiting document review to FB's outside counsel. It's ridiculous, it's abusive, it's overbroad, and it's transparently an effort to burden Fac…

Welcome to the American legal system. Facebook did nothing wrong here. When I was an attorney and involved with these kinds of subpoenas, we always worked with the third-parties to make document production less burdensome for them. SimulaVR should be working with Meta's attorneys on this instead of throwing a hissy fit online.

We aren't throwing a hissy fit lol. We're just stating the facts and are working with our lawyers to resolve this.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#209

Post by musingsole »

michaelt wrote: post #204
jdgoesmarching wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and we’re reacting to how crazy it is that Meta’s competitors are required to divulge internal documents to Meta so Meta can make a case that they aren’t anticompetitive. > It's not that Meta that wants the documents for corporate espionage Yes I’m sure we all trust Meta will behave ethically when given private information.

I believe the stance of the justice system is that Facebook's lawyers will behave ethically with the information because it's a professional obligation for lawyers. You and I might see that as a laughable claim - unfortunately the justice system is run entirely by lawyers.

> You and I might see that as a laughable claim

Being disbarred is a very real threat to any lawyer putting a roof over their heads. Which is most lawyers.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#210

Post by kanetw »

ncallaway wrote: post #174
the_lonely_road wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These specific people are being compelled to do that or the company is being compelled to show up in person? Those are wildly different demands. I find it hard to believe that specific productive employees of the company are being compelled to show up in court rather just some hired legal representatives of the company.

Right, but hiring a legal representative is going to be very expensive for a small organization. It’s not just the few hours they’ll be testifying, or giving deposition. A reasonable corporate representative is going to need to do quite a bit of prep work and review of relevant materials. So, that’s both a legal cost, and a productivity cost for whoever is collecting those documents and briefing the corporate represe…

Yep. It's easily going to be in the 5 digits.
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