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Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

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Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#51

Post by jankyxenon »

jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

Aren't Bitcoin and Ethereum both pseudonymous? Once you know one of someone's transactions, don't you know them all?

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#52

Post by jqpabc123 »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #32
Clent wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's as "funny money" as any other security. Just because you feel they may be "funnier" doesn't affect the laws around selling and trading securities.

Your post is based on an assumption --- that crypto is legally defined as a "security". Do you have any reference to support this? If this is true, then the crypto market is subject to existing security laws. And government needs to launch an extensive investigation of crypto exchanges who have been operating without the required authorization or oversight. As I said, this cuts to the very core of the crypto market.

it's a regulated financial asset.

If true, this is a cataclysmic moment for the crypto market --- the entirety of which has been operating illegally.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#53

Post by aliqot »

baxtr wrote: post #48
jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

But wait! I thought decentralised is sooo much better??

Celsius is centralized. Was this comment sincere?

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#54

Post by jedberg »

jankyxenon wrote: post #51
jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

Aren't Bitcoin and Ethereum both pseudonymous? Once you know one of someone's transactions, don't you know them all?

Yes, and often you can trace that back to a single person, but not always.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#55

Post by jedberg »

pazimzadeh wrote: post #49
jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

Huh? If that was true then it would be services like AAVE or Uniswap which would be bankrupt, not the centralized finance Celsius. The idea that the traditional legal system prevents funny business with money is naive. 9/10/2001: Rumsfeld says $2.3 TRILLION Missing from Pentagon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU The Pentagon’s $35 Trillion Accounting Black Hole https://www.yahoo.com/video/pentagon-35-trilli…

It doesn't prevent it, but it gives you recourse to make yourself whole again, and in a sense prevents a lot of funny business because people are afraid of getting caught and being put in jail.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#56

Post by woodruffw »

woah wrote: post #27

This isn't crypto, it's just a shady investment fund that happened to invest in crypto

This is not a useful distinction: most cryptocurrencies and "DeFi" startups seem to be propped up by shady, unattested corporate entities.

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#57

Post by jakelazaroff »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #40
rzwitserloot wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say my company has $400,000 in earnings left over. I could pay it to myself but then I have to pay income tax and all that jazz. So, instead I buy something fungible-ish that isn't on anybodys immediate radar as a 'security', say, some Black Lotus cards from Magic the Gathering, and I then give those to myself. HA! I dodged it all! .... no. The spirit of the law is that this is a financial transaction just the…

Still fraud if you steal a painting Celsius didn't steal anything.

What do you call it when you abuse your insider role to close your own position in your failing investment fund, while hanging your customers out to dry?

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#58

Post by woodruffw »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #11
a2tech wrote: post #2

gasp I'm shocked, absolutely SHOCKED, that people involved in crypto would be scam artists.

And the most amazing part --- it's not even a scam. He really didn't cash out anything that was legal tender --- what he cashed out was a bunch of play money. Technically, this isn't a crime because it wasn't "real" money.

"I convinced them to pay real money for fake money, stole the fake money, and exchanged it afterwards for real money" is not an argument that is likely to convince the SEC (or a jury).

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#59

Post by beders »

pazimzadeh wrote: post #49
jedberg wrote: post #33

Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn't backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns). The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right. And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn't listen to the legal system, there are people with guns/violence to back that up. That's why the whole system works -…

Huh? If that was true then it would be services like AAVE or Uniswap which would be bankrupt, not the centralized finance Celsius. The idea that the traditional legal system prevents funny business with money is naive. 9/10/2001: Rumsfeld says $2.3 TRILLION Missing from Pentagon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU The Pentagon’s $35 Trillion Accounting Black Hole https://www.yahoo.com/video/pentagon-35-trilli…

How much money have you lost from your private bank account...?

Re: Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers

#60

Post by scifibestfi »

There's an update at the bottom of the article disputing the claim:

"Your report that Mr. Goldstein withdrew millions of dollars in advance of the “pause” is flatly mistaken. The reality is that Mr. Goldstein did not withdraw even one dollar in the four weeks prior to the pause—to the contrary, he deposited over $90,000 in CEL tokens in late May, just three weeks before the pause. Most of the supposed “withdrawals” from our client’s account were, in fact, regular-course transfers between his accounts and involved corresponding deposits. Indeed, in the year before the pause, Mr. Goldstein had net positive deposits into Celsius (including interest), not withdrawals. Your account unfortunately distorts Mr. Goldstein’s position, as he currently has millions locked up in Celsius, making him one of the Company’s largest unsecured creditors. Nuke is proud of his work to create a secure platform for Celsius users, and has been working tirelessly day in and day out to help restructure the Company to the benefit of all its creditors."

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