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Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

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Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#231

Post by raxxorraxor »

open-source-ux wrote: post #101

Privacy is also terrible in cloud desktops (and cloud apps) but many (most?) developers do not see it as a concern. It's too late to push for privacy in cloud software - especially when it's developers who are the strongest advocates for user-tracking in cloud desktops.

Really depends on the environment. Almost all developers I know are pretty big on privacy and critical of the negative implications of users sharing too much. If you work at Google or Facebook they will plant different ideas into your brain.

IT security might be slow, but they also found out that it isn't the users that pay them, it is management. Some concerns have validity, but there is also a lot of crap sold as security.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#232

Post by dugmartin »

digdugdirk wrote: post #223
dugmartin wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you do your work in VSCode you can setup the following pretty easily and it works really well (I use it to connect to my workstation in my home office when I work in a coffee shop on my laptop or the rare occasions I go into the office): 1. Install Tailscale ( https://tailscale.com/ ) on your laptop and workstation and enable the "MagicDNS" ( https://tailscale.com/kb/1081/magicdns/ ) feature. This sets up a VPN me…

I'm a little confused as to what benefic the "MagicDNS"/Tailscale aspect is adding? Is this faster than a traditional VPN? Is the VSCode remote development extension not able to function with a traditional VPN?

It just makes sshing between the machines by name very easy. You can do the same thing by assigning permanent IPs to all machines in the mesh and then updating all your host files across all the machines in the mesh. Life is too short for that.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#233

Post by yrgulation »

aeyes wrote: post #208
yrgulation wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My clients are all based in the uk and nearly all run on macos, except those at the bottom.

But the problem isn't Windows or MacOS. It's all the corporate spyware, antivirus, network interception and whatever else they come up with making the machines work like its 1995.

That is spot on and indeed a red flag. Imagine hiring people and the spying on them.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#234

Post by VyseofArcadia »

GianFabien wrote: post #30

The cost of a new fullly-spec'd workstation + high performance laptop is tiny compared to the salary of good software developers. Managements have a warped sense of how to save money and as a result grossly hurt morale and productivity where it matters the most.

It's not one big pile of money. Business expenditures are treated differently depending on what you spend it on.

My loose understanding is that capex (e.g. hardware) and opex (e.g. salary) are treated differently in a lot of ways. Some of it is taxes, there are deductions available for opex that don't apply to capex, at least in the US. Also, you can cut your expenses on opex to balance your budget (e.g. layoffs), but it's harder to recoup the sunk cost on capex.

Cloud desktops turn some capex into opex. Depending on how many employees you have, it can be a sizeable chunk of change.

I still think it's only worth it in specific edge cases, though.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#235

Post by jjtheblunt »

ryukafalz wrote: post #108

This is where I wish Plan 9 had caught on. It lets you run remote graphical apps more seamlessly than any remote desktop I know of today.

better than X11 did? better than Display Postscript did?

(genuinely wondering since i've not had a chance to play with Plan 9, kinda randomly)

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#237

Post by IanCal »

dugmartin wrote: post #187
senko wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to do that, but my laptop's and workstation's state inevitably get out of sync leading up to "wait why doesn't this work ... spend a couple of minutes .. ah yes I did X on the other device". (Before someone suggest "use docker": then I'd need a more powerful workstation and laptop :-) And VNCing into my workstation from the laptop has all the drawbacks that Matthew described in the article.

If you do your work in VSCode you can setup the following pretty easily and it works really well (I use it to connect to my workstation in my home office when I work in a coffee shop on my laptop or the rare occasions I go into the office): 1. Install Tailscale ( https://tailscale.com/ ) on your laptop and workstation and enable the "MagicDNS" ( https://tailscale.com/kb/1081/magicdns/ ) feature. This sets up a VPN me…

I have recently started doing this and it's excellent. I can just wander away from my desktop, take my laptop and go work somewhere else in the house, and I used something very similar going away abroad.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#238

Post by irusensei »

blevin wrote: post #210
irusensei wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah now imagine using Teams through Citrix workspace. One thing I've learned about Citrix is that its a startup company with limited resources to handle all the bugs and crusty corpocrapware layers. The client craps on my HDR setup. It install a ton of crap you don't need and it relies on crap like HDX software running on your machine that last time I've checked it didn't had ARM binaries but this tech is also unavai…

> One thing I've learned about Citrix is that its a startup company Founded 1989, 2021 revenue over $3B

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#239

Post by omh »

destroy-2A wrote: post #31

Try working in banking for 20 years, stuck behind at least 1 layer of citrix living in citrix inception. Latency for every keystroke, your brain starts to add latency to latency that is not there to compensate for a life lived wearing citrix latency goggles.

[ Disclaimer - I am responsible for a Citrix environment, but I'm reasonably proud of how well it works for our company ]

The technology behind remote desktops is fundamentally limited but I'm amazed at how good the user experience can be on a modern well-configured Citrix environment.

- The protocol responds well even on low bandwidth as long as latency is OK. On the office LAN it feels like a local computer.

- There is offloading for Teams[1], media streams[2] and even entire web browsers[3]. The tech behind this is impressive and it works pretty well (mostly!)

- For most staff it's easier to use a thin client or a minimal laptop.

- I can keep the Citrix environment patched and managed much more easily than a proliferation of laptops and home devices.

It can be a struggle at times and it's definitely not the right fit for developers. But it's got a lot of advantages and most of the time it works amazingly well.

[1] https://docs.citrix.com/en-us/citrix-virtual-apps-desktops/m... [2] https://docs.citrix.com/en-us/citrix-virtual-apps-desktops/m... [3] https://docs.citrix.com/en-us/citrix-virtual-apps-desktops/m...

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#240

Post by leoh »

I’ve been developing for the last few years on a cloud VM and love it. Latency has never been a serious issue for me.

It lets me use Linux as my daily driver, I have a highly capable machine with large L2/L3 cache, a lot of RAM, many CPUs — and it’s totally portable.

Not to mention that the internet speeds on the cloud VM are incredible — easily 1gbps+ wherever I am in the world. This is a selling point folks forget.

The combination of speed (hardware and network) and always being on (can leave compilation tasks etc. running) is very nice.

I’ve used Citrix and the modern Chrome Remote Desktop experience is generally an order of magnitude better.

Working on a bus with wifi, typically fine. Even working from Asia with the VM in California, great.

The only issue I have with cloud is that for personal it’s expensive. Google compute VMs are a lot more than equivalent workstations per year for similar hardware afaict.

That’s the question I’m curious how folks work around.

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