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SAT score distributions in Michigan

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Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#81

Post by treis »

fleetwoodsnack wrote: post #56
treis wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having trouble coming up with the right words to make my point. But, to me, this application says "my parents made me do a lot of shit" more than it says that this person is exceptional. What's this kid's resume if he's born in the hood to a single mom instead of a Boston suburb to an associate partner at IBM? IMHO it's sour grapes from someone that tried to game the system but didn't get the prize they wanted.

> I'm having trouble coming up with the right words to make my point. But, to me, this application says "my parents made me do a lot of shit" more than it says that this person is exceptional. What's this kid's resume if he's born in the hood to a single mom instead of a Boston suburb to an associate partner at IBM? Try: speculative, imaginary, and unsubstantiated by evidence. Stereotypical, if you’re feeling adventu…

Yes, that's what we do when translating accomplishments to ability

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#82

Post by wara23arish »

socialismisok wrote: post #48
throwaway6734 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SATs also allow for children with non parental involvement but talent to excel because it's a simple process: take a test

It's hardly simple to prep for the SAT. It requires time and money and space.

I dont buy this argument for a second. You can buy a used sat prep book for cheap or even borrow one from a library.

Practice twice a week leading up to the test with practice tests once every two weeks.

taking a prep course will help, but thats not necessary at all.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#83

Post by pradn »

chewbacha wrote: post #26

I have another spin on it. Of those demographics, asians tend to be very recent migrants ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/04/09/asian-ameri... ) and migrants tend to be very hard-working within the first generation of migration ( https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2012/07/12/ten-way... ). Some of this could be selection bias (those who choose to move are those who are motivated to seek a better lif…

> I did get a little confused from how we went from Asians doing well in Michigan means the PRC is going to dominate the engineering sector. There seems to be an implication that these are connected. Its my understanding that these demographic data would represent South, SE, and East Asia as part of the same demographic.

No, I think his observations about Asians doing well on the SAT in Michigan is unrelated to his point about China. He's saying that since China generally gets high scores on international math tests, and they have a greater population, there's just going to be many more qualified STEM grads than in the US. It's a higher proportion of talent multiplied by a higher population.

This makes sense intuitively. But I'm unsure how reliable these international tests are. Is the test being given at an elite school in Shanghai or in a small rural village? Is it representative of all of China? Do higher scores translate to more innovation down the line? Are high scorers likely to also come up with creative ideas for solving problems? Lots of questions.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#84

Post by qsort »

davidn20 wrote: post #29

I think as a society we need to admit different race, in general, have different culture, values, and strengths. I don't even think that's a radical idea, but somehow it is. I have been watching this football competition youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrbljwLslYI The fun and athleticism you see is awe-inspiring, but I haven't seen a single Asian person competing or even at the event. My guess is a m…

We should not, because race is a useless concept.

There are traits individuals can have, some of which are immutable, and some of which correlate with what we call "race". But race itself is, even taking the most benign meaning possible, at best a surrogate.

The sooner we get rid of that awful meme the better.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#85

Post by sokoloff »

digdugdirk wrote: post #71

The race distributions are interesting, sure. But the full report has some better data points for drawing conclusions. Of particular interest to me was the income/parental education differential (obvious increases, but interesting to see by how much) but especially a category for results by when the test was taken - weekend vs in-school. Students who took the test on a weekend were nearly 300pts higher, and the "met…

Isn't that likely driven by a selection bias? "Everyone in school A takes the test in-school" vs "School B does not offer the test, so a subset of school B's students take the test on a weekend."

From that alone, I'd expect school B's test results to substantially outperform school A's results.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#86

Post by lettergram »

It comes down to culture, society, and policies.

The parents in my community growing up were poor. But all our parents worked with us every day to push us to success. We had a neighborhood working together every summer, parents involved in the school board, etc.

I’ve see that slip over time. Particularly, the idea parents can make enough to spend time. But also a general attitude.

One thing during the George Floyd riots I heard was “it’s horrible what happened to Floyd. But the real issue is that George Floyd should have been a foreman in a factory. He should have had a family to go home to, a reason not to be doing drugs and children to care for. The tragedy is those opportunities don’t exist”

It comes down to parents being involved. Often they can’t or they’re distracted due to stress. Government can’t help directly, it’s about providing the opportunity for parents to nurture and support. It’s also that parents need to potentially pick their focus. I personally took a 50% pay cut, moved to a better area and made other sacrifices to ensure my children can have the best opportunity. I could afford that, all Americans should be afforded that. It starts with more good jobs.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#87

Post by lupire »

jl6 wrote: post #66
aabajian wrote: post #11

The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically. The stratification is more granular than Asian versus Black or White versus Native America. For example, Jewish students excel beyond the Caucasian average while Cambodian and other Southeast Asian Immigrants perform significantly below the national average for Asian Americans. The challenge…

> an educational system that provides access to quality education regardless of parental involvement. I do wonder if this is possible. If you up the baseline of school provision, won’t involved parents provide a further advantage over and above that?

Not if the test difficulty stays the same, and you get more 800s and lotteries (or, dare we say it, more seats?!) for next level positions, at college or career. Tides, boats , bars.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#88

Post by faeriechangling »

aabajian wrote: post #11

The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically. The stratification is more granular than Asian versus Black or White versus Native America. For example, Jewish students excel beyond the Caucasian average while Cambodian and other Southeast Asian Immigrants perform significantly below the national average for Asian Americans. The challenge…

> The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically.

Is there any way to prove/disprove this? Also doesn’t this also beg the question as to why non-Asian parents apparently won’t teach their kids to be good academics?

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#90

Post by rch »

billsmithaustin wrote: post #59
aabajian wrote: post #11

The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically. The stratification is more granular than Asian versus Black or White versus Native America. For example, Jewish students excel beyond the Caucasian average while Cambodian and other Southeast Asian Immigrants perform significantly below the national average for Asian Americans. The challenge…

My daughter credits the test-taking techniques they taught in her SAT prep course for a big boost in her SAT score. She says the test-taking techniques were orthogonal to how well she knew the material. I'm happy for her but at the same time it seems unfair that my ability to afford the SAT prep course gave her an advantage not available to families with lower incomes.

I attended prep courses and they didn't have an impact on my scores, measured by before and after practice testing (~1500 in the late 90s).

What did help is that I was encouraged to read a lot from a young age, which seems fairly accessible to most families.

Support your local libraries.

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