SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc • Hacker News Board

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#21

Post by georgewsinger » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 2:08 PM UTC

Raed667 wrote: post #9

Can someone explain why is meta entitled to see a 3rd party's business plans, financials and statistics?

Though I'm not a lawyer, I believe defendants in court cases are entitled to command witnesses (signed off by a judge) to provide evidence that could be used in their defense.

It makes sense in the abstract: e.g. imagine you're accused of murder, and you know someone saw you somewhere else at the supposed time of the crime, yet they refuse to provide evidence to help you. It would seem reasonable they could compel you under that circumstance to testify.

Since the FTC has initiated a court case against Meta, I assume they are provided a similar legal right to command competitors to provide evidence that they haven't behaved "anti-competitively".

The question becomes whether, in this particular instance, they're abusing that privilege by demanding information they shouldn't be entitled to from unrelated/extraneous parties.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#22

Post by traverseda » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

Well I am not a lawyer, and if I was a lawyer I wouldn't be a lawyer in that country, but my understanding is that SimularVR is under no obligation to create any new documents or gather any new information. So for example the answer to "Fine-grained usage statistics of our software" can legitimately be "we don't have any". If I was SimulaVR I would gather all documents that currently exist, and be very careful about creating any new documents regarding any of this before consulting with a lawyer. I imagine that creating new documents in answer to this might create further obligations, but I really don't know.

Of course I'm not a lawyer and don't really know what I'm talking about, and this is not legal advice.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#23

Post by mintaka5 » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

Raed667 wrote: post #9

Can someone explain why is meta entitled to see a 3rd party's business plans, financials and statistics?

No post body was provided.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#24

Post by TakeBlaster16 » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

georgewsinger wrote: post #6

endominus wrote: post #3

From their post, it appears that Simula don't intend to comply with the subpoena. IANAL. Does receipt of these documents carry an obligation to provide the documents and deposition requested? Does this open them to later legal action if they refuse? It seems like a strange thing for a corporation to be able to demand that other companies hand over stuff like this, no matter the circumstance.

Just to clarify: we're seeking legal counsel and intend to comply with the law. Many other larger companies have fought these subpoenas (Snap, etc) and, as far as we can tell, still had to hand over items.

If that's true, it sounds like companies have been weaponizing the legal system to get access to proprietary information from their competitors. Surely that has got to be illegal somehow?

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#25

Post by T3RMINATED » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

throbintrash wrote: post #14

LeonenTheDK wrote: post #8

Well that is unfortunate. I would not want to be in Simula's position, I'm sure they've got enough on their plate without having to deal with stuff like this that they barely have an impact on in the first place. I understand that Meta needs to prove they're not a monopoly, and apparently the way to do that is through other companies laying their cards on the table, but my goodness would I feel uncomfortable giving c…

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#26

Post by ekianjo » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

kodah wrote: post #16

Raed667 wrote: post #9

Can someone explain why is meta entitled to see a 3rd party's business plans, financials and statistics?

It's explained in the post. The FTC accused them of being anti-competitive. The only way to show you're not anti-competitive is to demand documents of your opponents that demonstrate you still have competition.

Then why not share to the FTC themselves and not META so that you can still keep it confidential from your competition?

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#27

Post by dsign » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 2:10 PM UTC

This is not Meta demanding to see some privilege information that exists in Simula's drawers, but rather commandeering the entire competing organization to do market research for Meta. It is clever and evil, and nothing anybody says after this will make me think that Meta is not anti-competitive nor that they have an once of ethics. As a consumer, I doubt I will ever again consider their VR products; I rather give my money to Satan, or even Google.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#28

Post by Entinel » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 2:10 PM UTC

These types of things are incredibly silly. During the Epic vs Apple charade, Apple subpoenaed Steam for financial records as well which the judge forced Steam to comply with. The fact that a situation completely unrelated to me can force me to hand over what I would consider business secrets is a bit absurd.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#29

Post by throbintrash » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 2:11 PM UTC

marcinzm wrote: post #18

throbintrash wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Why does it matter how other companies are to their point?

I'm just saying there are no ethical companies of that size

so it's a disengineous point to bring up.

the deeper realization is that is not fair (nor conducing to good social outcome) to try and hold an entity such as Meta (formerly facebook) to individual person standards such as being ethical.

this is more important in other discussions around rights of corporations (and other comparalby powerful institutions) in contrast with the righs of human individuals (see also: censorship by 'private persons' but this person is google or something)

but let's just bury my ancestor reply before going any deeper. gosh.

Re: SimulaVR Has Been Subpoenaed by Meta Platforms, Inc

#30

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 2:11 PM UTC

kodah wrote: post #16

Raed667 wrote: post #9

Can someone explain why is meta entitled to see a 3rd party's business plans, financials and statistics?

It's explained in the post. The FTC accused them of being anti-competitive. The only way to show you're not anti-competitive is to demand documents of your opponents that demonstrate you still have competition.

[deleted]