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Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

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Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#171

Post by mgkimsal »

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #154
mgkimsal wrote: post #144

Have generally been skeptical of 'cloud desktop' but... I had a friend who got in to sales for a cloud desktop provider about 6-7 years ago. There was only one real strong use case and she sold to that niche. Some specific cad/modeling/rendering vertical had software they used, and it was a CPU bear. Running that 'remotely' in the cloud was much faster than anything they could have locally. Managing all the licensing…

I worked in architectural CAD for a number of years (as a software engineer, not an architect), and this surprises me. Sure you needed a PC with a little bit of beef to work in it smoothly, but not unaffordably beefy. A not all that recent macbook was good enough for pretty much all of our customers. I left the company in 2019, and plenty of people were still working on a 2012 macbook on the latest version. My own de…

The details are hazy, and our paths don't cross any more, so I can't say for sure. Yes, overnights were still done in some cases, but they were able to do more 'in day' smaller renders (IIRC) that was making it worthwhile.

IIRC... she done some consulting work for a particular firm, and they were investigating cloud stuff. When they chose that vendor, she saw how much of an impact that was making, and contacted the cloud vendor and became a salesperson/evangelist.

You were on a MacBook. They were all in the Windows/MS world, so perhaps there was something about that software that just was 'better on windows in the cloud'. Again, sorry I can't remember too many more details. I do suspect times have changed some, so the ROI may not be there any longer (and maybe wasn't there at the time for many folks).

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#172

Post by icedchai »

jiggawatts wrote: post #86
destroy-2A wrote: post #31

Try working in banking for 20 years, stuck behind at least 1 layer of citrix living in citrix inception. Latency for every keystroke, your brain starts to add latency to latency that is not there to compensate for a life lived wearing citrix latency goggles.

I was a "Citrix consultant" for about two decades. I'd walk into customer sites for the first time, meet people, and within minutes they would start ranting about how bad Citrix is. I suspect only dentists get this kind of feedback from customers before a procedure. Having said that, 99% of the time the problem boils down to this: The guy (and it is a guy) signing the cheques either doesn't use Citrix OR uses it from…

How long ago was this? 4 megabits would be pretty good... back in 1998!

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#173

Post by anxiously »

cdkmoose wrote: post #169

This also requires access to a stable fast network at all times. Local internet goes down, AWS/AZURE/GCP goes down and I'm stuck. With my laptop setup, I can work anywhere anytime, as long as I have power. I'll need network access at some point to commit code or pick up changed libraries, but that can be managed.

Maybe that is not a bad thing? If you don’t have internet then go for a walk. Touch some grass.

I hope always being in a work state isn’t seen as a plus.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#174

Post by lupire »

make3 wrote: post #151
GiorgioG wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the life of me I don’t understand why folks default to laptops for development. Yes portability is great, but most of us park our behinds at the same desk everyday. If I’m going to be out of the office (away from home) I take a laptop and remote into the desktop! Even M1 macs (I have one and love it), while powerful, just can’t hold a candle to a workstation class machine.

wtf do you do with your CODING workstation that a M1 computer can't do?

Compile large code base.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#175

Post by vetinari »

methyl wrote: post #130
GiorgioG wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the life of me I don’t understand why folks default to laptops for development. Yes portability is great, but most of us park our behinds at the same desk everyday. If I’m going to be out of the office (away from home) I take a laptop and remote into the desktop! Even M1 macs (I have one and love it), while powerful, just can’t hold a candle to a workstation class machine.

> Even M1 macs (I have one and love it), while powerful, just can’t hold a candle to a workstation class machine Not really true. My M1 Pro is performance-wise very close to my previous desktop based Ryzen 5900X, but: 1. It doesn't take space on or below my desk 2. Auxiliary screen it provides is useful 3. I can unplug it any time and continue working from anywhere with the same performance, without having to sync up…

I have M1 (the original) MBP and Ryzen TR2920X desktop (with oddles of RAM, multiple NVMe drives and 10 Gbps networking). The Mac, while significantly better than any Intel laptop I had before, still cannot hold a candle to the desktop, sorry.

The desktop is much more power hungry, though.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#176

Post by anxiously »

I don’t use a graphical cloud setup, but I do use a vps for all of my development.

It is nice having a single cloud based machine that is accessible via ssh on any of my physical devices.

I have a dev environment closer to production, ssl and publicly accessible urls for testing services and sharing to compare designs and UI changes, etc.

Fantastic setup for anyone that likes a vim+tmux workflow. Only a single environment to keep up to date and configured. Daily snapshots and backups.

Keeps the cost of other hardware down as well.. I can work effectively on cheap hardware which certainly offsets the server costs. I did a cost rundown before and it was like ~15 years of my vps and cheap hardware equal to a single entry level MacBook Pro.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#177

Post by lupire »

anxiously wrote: post #173
cdkmoose wrote: post #169

This also requires access to a stable fast network at all times. Local internet goes down, AWS/AZURE/GCP goes down and I'm stuck. With my laptop setup, I can work anywhere anytime, as long as I have power. I'll need network access at some point to commit code or pick up changed libraries, but that can be managed.

Maybe that is not a bad thing? If you don’t have internet then go for a walk. Touch some grass. I hope always being in a work state isn’t seen as a plus.

With my laptop, I can work before, during, or after touching grass, instead of taking a long wasteful commute.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#178

Post by jackcviers3 »

methyl wrote: post #130
GiorgioG wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the life of me I don’t understand why folks default to laptops for development. Yes portability is great, but most of us park our behinds at the same desk everyday. If I’m going to be out of the office (away from home) I take a laptop and remote into the desktop! Even M1 macs (I have one and love it), while powerful, just can’t hold a candle to a workstation class machine.

> Even M1 macs (I have one and love it), while powerful, just can’t hold a candle to a workstation class machine Not really true. My M1 Pro is performance-wise very close to my previous desktop based Ryzen 5900X, but: 1. It doesn't take space on or below my desk 2. Auxiliary screen it provides is useful 3. I can unplug it any time and continue working from anywhere with the same performance, without having to sync up…

My System76 laptop with Nvidia graphics is faster than the M1 Pro I have for work, has more cores, and 64G of ram means I can run all my communications stuff and an ide and a compiler and a local k3s and the machine won't break a sweat. However, the battery will drain in an hour and a half doing all that. Performance is definitely not an issue on non-arm machines. Battery life is.

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#179

Post by GoOnThenDoTell »

lupire wrote: post #158

Not bad article, but intro deeply confuses the issue. If you want fast builds for your org, use a build server farm that is much faster than the fastest workstation, and sma incremental builds locally or on your cloud desktop. A local UX machine (15" Mac not built in the Dark Ages of 2016-2020, + desk monitor, good for 5+ years) with a FUSE mounted remote storage and a build farm is a great combo.

What are options for the fuse mounted remote storage?

Re: Cloud desktops aren't as good as you'd think

#180

Post by lupire »

clarge1120 wrote: post #25
gw99 wrote: post #11

Yep. Having worked in these environments, this solution is almost always sold to companies that are working around shitty hard to reproduce software stacks, staff trust issues, scale up difficulties and checkbox security cargo cults. The resulting outcome is usually increased staff turnover, increased cost and decreased productivity. Most of this they are having trouble rationalising or acknowledging still. You don't…

It’s a miserable experience from top to bottom. Onboarding a new developer takes much longer and is far more tedious than one might expect. There are multiple layers of security employees must navigate. And when something breaks, anywhere, it’s a huge pain to sort out the source of the problem, find the right person responsible, and get something fixed. If you find yourself in an organization that thinks this remote…

Huh? If your corporate resources are synced to your laptop, you have no security.
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