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US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

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Re: US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you apply to XYZ Corp in any random city or town, they will have “bachelors in computer science or related degree” in the requirements section of the job posting. Of course, the purpose of a job advertisement is to compel workers to apply. Companies don't write "bachelors degree" because they expect you to have a bachelors degree, they make note it because if you have a bachelors degree it will pique your intere…

Parts of job posting are marketing, especially the unquantifiable parts. Other parts are real indicators of what they’ll filter incoming applications by. Education and experience are absolutely quantifiable indicators that recruiters or HR will often filter by before that resume lands on the desk of a hiring manager.

> Other parts are real indicators of what they’ll filter incoming applications by.

That may end up being incidentally true, but not the reason for sharing that information on the job ad. After all, there would be no reason for HR to apply said filters if the posting was prescriptive. It is there merely to grab your attention.

It is kind of like prices on product advertisements. If you fail to successfully barter with the merchant you very well may pay the price listed on the ad, but the price isn't listed as a commandment of what you will pay, but rather it is listed in order to capture your attention. "Huh, that's not a bad price. I should buy that." It's a marketing trick, is all.

That said, these days everyone has transitioned to "Bachelors degree or equivalent experience" so even if HR does hold firm to what the ad says, they aren't filtering by bachelor degrees anyway. That is a long outdated relic of the past that isn't subscribed to anymore as it has been realized that the 'indicator' doesn't actually indicate anything.

Re: US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parts of job posting are marketing, especially the unquantifiable parts. Other parts are real indicators of what they’ll filter incoming applications by. Education and experience are absolutely quantifiable indicators that recruiters or HR will often filter by before that resume lands on the desk of a hiring manager.

> Other parts are real indicators of what they’ll filter incoming applications by. That may end up being incidentally true, but not the reason for sharing that information on the job ad. After all, there would be no reason for HR to apply said filters if the posting was prescriptive. It is there merely to grab your attention. It is kind of like prices on product advertisements. If you fail to successfully barter with…

> After all, there would be no reason for HR to apply said filters if the posting was prescriptive.

HR also doesn't want to spend all day sorting through garbage resumes. Some use resume parsing software (or form fields) to do this sorting for them, in which case, it is effectively prescriptive.

> these days everyone has transitioned to "Bachelors degree or equivalent experience"

Most tech companies hiring rank-and-file software developers, maybe. Definitely not every job. Pick your favorite job posting site and look at mid or upper management positions -- few accept "equivalent experience".

Re: US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Other parts are real indicators of what they’ll filter incoming applications by. That may end up being incidentally true, but not the reason for sharing that information on the job ad. After all, there would be no reason for HR to apply said filters if the posting was prescriptive. It is there merely to grab your attention. It is kind of like prices on product advertisements. If you fail to successfully barter with…

> After all, there would be no reason for HR to apply said filters if the posting was prescriptive. HR also doesn't want to spend all day sorting through garbage resumes. Some use resume parsing software (or form fields) to do this sorting for them, in which case, it is effectively prescriptive. > these days everyone has transitioned to "Bachelors degree or equivalent experience" Most tech companies hiring rank-and-f…

> Some use resume parsing software (or form fields) to do this sorting for them, in which case, it is effectively prescriptive.

It's not, though. Clearly the resumes which don't meet expectations are arriving, else filtering would be unnecessary. So obviously nobody actually pays attention to the "requirements" as anything more than what they are: A marketing gimmick. And why would they? It's like the price on the product ad. You are still going to try and get a better deal. Just because someone suggested something to grab your attention does not set it in stone.

> Pick your favorite job posting site and look at mid or upper management positions

I'm not well versed in the best places to look, but I gave it a shot. Here are a couple I could find from companies I've heard of before.

* H&R Block - VP of Information Technology: "Bachelor’s degree in Computer Science or related field or equivalent combination of education and work experience."

But maybe we need to look beyond tech.

* World Wildlife Fund (WWF) – Vice President: "Post-secondary degree in science or policy fields relevant to conservation, or comparable work experience."

A similar story for companies I've never heard of held true, but fly-by-nights seem less relevant so I omit them here. Maybe VP isn't upper management enough?

Re: US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say it's a soft requirement in most cases. One must be prepared for an extra uphill battle trying to secure a job without one. As someone who just broke into the industry this month (with no degree), my biggest assets were an existing portfolio of work and leveraging my ten years of professional experience working on complex/critical problems in various fields. I don't think this is strictly related to softwa…

I'm not convinced of the uphill battle of securing a job. Credentials seem to matter in that they modify the gradient you advance in ranks with. I have a degree. It has certainly helped the speed at which I advanced. But I don't believe it helped me actually get the job. My first job was 10 years ago and it still wasn't that big of a deal to not have one at most jobs. However, government jobs almost always have a har…

>government jobs almost always have a hard degree requirement.

There are a surprising number of loopholes. For example, many federal engineering jobs require any one of the following:

1) A bachelors degree in engineering

2) Sufficient college coursework without a degree with relevant experience

3) A non-engineering degree with sufficient engineering coursework

4) passing the engineers in training (EIT) exam with relevant experience (which doesn't necessarily require a degree to sit for)

5) A professional engineer (PE) license (which, in some cases, doesn't require any college)

I do think HR is biased towards just looking for degrees. Probably out of either laziness or risk-aversion.

Re: US Job Outlook for Software Developers, Quality Assurance Analysts, and Testers

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Folks have no clue what they are doing, they just follow trends. And you think that a degree helps with that? I've had coworkers with MS in comp-sci who had no idea how to implement stuff in a practical, efficient manner, and other coworkers with no degree who were able to grasp the best practices from the get-go. I don't think the degrees are the problem. The problem is that the demand for software engineers has wi…

Not having a degree doesnt mean you cant be great or better than someone with a degree. A lot of trades have people that simply have a “feel” of how things work. Its a bit like car mechanics vs mechanical engineers. No matter how good a mechanic is they will rarely be good enough to actually understand why things are the way they are. A mechanic can fix any part of the car but the engineer will build that critical th…

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm happy to respect it, but:

>saying that having a degree is a negative thing is just silly.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said having a degree was a negative. I made an example of why I don't think it's relevant in the first place

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