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From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

jasonshen.com

341–350 of 352 posts

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#341
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll admit 5 years was hyperbolic and unrealistic, perhaps something reserved for the most promising workers at those FAANGs. But if you are 10 years into your FAANG career, you should be earning at minimum in the 300K net/210k take home range, and have done so for years. At this point you must be trading freedom for creature comforts or status goods if you are not financially independent.

What’s financially independent mean at age 35? Say you saved 200k every year (which isn’t even technically possible given that the typical tax rate for 300k means a smaller net than that.) You have 2 million in the bank. Can you live off 2 million for 30 years (social security age) while supporting a family as the sole earner, for that long? You gotta be really confident in your investments to take that plunge.

Well it depends on your personal circumstances. As per the 4% rule, you can definitely live off $80K with a family. That's above the US median wage by a large margin. You could live on $40K too, which is terrible if working but completely different if not. Again, this will depend on what you value in life.

Think about what not having to work actually means. There's a list of advantages that is too large to properly enumerate. Being able to see your children. Eating correctly and cheaply. Engaging in intimate relationships with vigor, time and energy. Being in great health. Fixing maintenance problems yourself. No career forcing you to live in a particular place. Traveling inexpensively when you want. Less obesity, stress and copium. Have hobbies and self-actualization. All of this in years that still qualify as your prime instead of when your body is failing you. The same salary when not working is like operating in a different world.

And ironically this would also give you the time to pursue entrepreneurship or any number of money-making ventures if you are so inclined. Heck, just go part-time if you miss it. If you are a FAANG person you can have a higher salary than people's full time.

Most people will not have that opportunity. I certainly won't, barring some miracle. But you have it. What will you do when you retire at 55 and realize that pretty much all of the really healthy years of your life have been spent in an office? Great, you've got a comfy retirement but it's too late.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#342
post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not just the mouthpiece of some think tank ad campaign. Uh huh. Here's his "worker's pledge." It is literally "be a good little peasant worker drone" bullshit: I believe that I have won the greatest lottery of all time. I am alive. I walk the Earth. I live in America. Above all things, I am grateful. I believe that I am entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Nothing more. I also understand that "ha…

I find this to be empowering, not offensive. Seems like it's mostly telling you that some things are in your control and some aren't, and that you're responsible for the stuff that's in your control. Frankly, this would be great for an entrepreneur. I've had plenty of crappy jobs/bosses, but I can't think of one job where being bitter, entitled, or negative would have helped me .

It can be empowering if you take it at face value. The obvious subtext is that it is something used to discourage the worker from seeking collective action or improving their working conditions. If you applied these ideas in real life we'd still be living with Victorian-style working conditions, and we'd be unable to do anything at all against structural economic problems that determine livelihoods way more than any personal responsibility or gumption.

Heck even the part about showing up early etc. to distinguish yourself is naïve even in the best light when you've spent time at a job.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What this has proven is working at amazon warehouse sucks, and is not sustainable. This person went from a 23-year career sitting at a desk to doing physical labor all day. Any physical labor is going to take a toll on someone in their 40s who hasn't been doing physical labor. I have a lot of people in my extended social circle who are in physical labor jobs. Amazon Warehouse jobs are always viewed as the "easy" fa…

I also have people in my extended social circle who are in jobs that involve a lot of physical labor. As we all enter our late 30s-early 40s give or take, and they realize what a toll it's taking on their bodies, most of them are trying to get out of it, or have gotten out of it. They realize they aren't going to be physically able to do it another 25 years, and their bodies are going to get increasingly wrecked. Fro…

> As we all enter our late 30s-early 40s give or take, and they realize what a toll it's taking on their bodies, most of them are trying to get out of it, or have gotten out of it. They realize they aren't going to be physically able to do it another 25 years, and their bodies are going to get increasingly wrecked

This is why when you see people who do physical labour well into their 40s they almost always have substance problems. Job takes its toll on them and drugs are what let them push through.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the 2000s, talking about problems ad nauseam without solving them unless pressing has been the status quo for a few decades now.

Sure, but companies that only talk and don't do should die out by natural selection. Why isn't this happening?

Inertia, being carried by past success, delivering juuust enough new value that their clients don't switch away from them.

Or their clients have inertia and continue to use their product long past the time they should have moved to a competitor who is innovating.

I don't know. I think there's a lot of dead weight in the big corporations that is being carried along. I think you can see this a lot in marketing departments with massive budgets. They spend their money marketing to other big companies. Those companies are spending their money marketing back to them. It's like a shell game where a lot of money is moving but nothing changes.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#345
post #8

BTW, a highly disturbed sleep like he is describing is a common sign of burnout/depression/anxiety disorder. Do not ignore it! There are drugs and therapy, it is worth it. It is double worth it if you have the money to stay unemployed or have other ways of getting some extended rest, at least 3 months. BTW, there is even some chemical signalling pathway explanation for that connection. Or maybe it is hypothesized? ID…

The issue is that then you have to deal with a fascist machine that's hellbent on destroying your life for profit.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#346
post #8

BTW, a highly disturbed sleep like he is describing is a common sign of burnout/depression/anxiety disorder. Do not ignore it! There are drugs and therapy, it is worth it. It is double worth it if you have the money to stay unemployed or have other ways of getting some extended rest, at least 3 months. BTW, there is even some chemical signalling pathway explanation for that connection. Or maybe it is hypothesized? ID…

Sorry for the double comment, but I think you may be wrong about burnout. There's reasons to think that long pauses won't help with burnout. Once people return to the original conditions, they often wind up right back where they started.

You bring up financial means, but the issue that it puts you into a lower caste of citizen, entitled to fewer rights. This position may be temporary, mitigable, or you may be in a position talent / career wise where it doesn't matter.

The fact remains that in the eyes of our society you have become less valuable as a person. Lots of people can't take that hit.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better than destroying your body for no pay in a command economy.

More capitalist propaganda. You're incorrect... workers do get paid in a command economy. Of course there isn't a command economy on earth, so this is pointless whataboutism on your part, but like I said... capitalist propaganda.

[deleted]

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I believe that I have won the greatest lottery of all time...I live in America." And this is the point where my bullshit detector overheated and exploded.

You have to understand that most Americans are indoctrinated to believe that America is “the best” from the moment they are born. I have lived and worked in the US, Europe, and Australia and can truthfully say that you have won the lottery if you are born in any of the rich western democratic country. And I personally don’t put the US as #1 on that list.

Oh I've lived here my whole life, and trust me, I know the score.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#349

> I had what I would stereotype as a traditional Chinese upbringing in America, which meant my parents very much expected straight A's. Anytime a B happened, something had gone wrong. The explanation was never like you lack the talent or whatever, but that you didn’t work hard enough. It sounds like the author never got a chance to figure out the intersection between what he liked to do and what he was actually good…

> It sounds like the author never got a chance to figure out the intersection between what he liked to do and what he was actually good at. Instead, he was trained to respond to the approval of authority figures.

I also read that section and thought it unfortunate the author missed that realization as being the likely root cause. External validation seems to be a major driver of his unhappiness. There's nothing wrong with finding solace in structured work but I think if he returns to his old job he's likely to reach burn out unless he can identify this as a root cause.

I made that connection for myself as I've had a strangely similar recent experience to his, albeit without the Amazon warehouse job. I burned out, took multiple months off of work, didn't implement any lasting structures, and became depressed. But I did spend a ton of time in therapy to evaluate my mental health and what drove me to burn out. Practicing self-awareness and emotional awareness has made me more optimistic about finding routines and habits which will bring more fulfillment.

Re: From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate

#350

I sometimes miss my old job hauling around boxes. It’s great exercise and you never have to take stress home with you. Good coworkers often times too It just doesn’t pay enough to retire off of. Can’t easily build savings. Can’t easily pay for the dentist or other emergencies Being a lead programmer pays a ton better. I just wish I wasn’t as stressful as it is

I left devops behind to go back to an IT help desk. Around a 20% paycut but I never even have to have email on my phones, no on call, no weekends, I barely have to think much. Good benefits and still above average pay for my area and I can return to grad school part time. I realized I just dont deal well with stress and it easily spills over into my personal life, my stress started effecting my spouse so I had to go.

Are you able to talk about what you're doing in help desk that still pays so (relatively) well? This honestly sounds like a dream to me.
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