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Is Firefox Doomed?

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Re: Is Firefox Doomed?

#81

Post by grannyg00se »

rjd wrote: post #20
Bo102010 wrote: post #9

Firefox isn't doomed. Not only is it still a good web browser that many (myself included) continue to use daily, inertia will keep it installed on millions of PCs. As far as I know, Mozilla and Google maintain good relations. Even if the deal that provides money from Google to Mozilla isn't renewed, I doubt they will entirely disentangle themselves from each other.

Firefox is doomed because its lost its developer foot hold, anecdotally most devs I know refer to it as a joke and use Chrome instead. Its a browser that relies on recommendation to exist, and it no longer is getting recommendation. On a technical note each version isn't really getting any better, historical problems have never been addressed, version fragmentation is occurring, on several matters its in direct confl…

"The UI is polarising"

What exactly do you mean by that? The UI in a browser shouldn't do anything but get out of the way and display the web page's UI.

Personally, I don't even want to see a menu bar unless I hit the ALT key - which is working nicely for me in Firefox right now.

And I don't notice any "laggy behaviour". Although I haven't run any comparison tests so maybe I'm missing out.

Re: Is Firefox Doomed?

#82

Post by rue »

FrankBooth wrote: post #57
rjd wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I replied a little lower down about emotion and opinion and that it in part it isn't mine ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3309208 ). But for your specific comments I'll reply. You make 3 comments that I think answer themselves. First statement I imply that things aren't getting better, I'll agree that some things are getting better, new features and support etc... but theres a chunk of stuff not getting…

> First statement I imply that things aren't getting better, I'll agree that some things are getting better, new features and support etc... but theres a chunk of stuff not getting improved. What things that actually matter aren't being improved? You're wrong about plugins so I'll assume that you mean addons here, which use a completely different interface. Addon compatibility over the new release schedule has been r…

> You're wrong about plugins so I'll assume that you mean addons here, which use a completely different interface.

I personally found Chrome's plugin “API” to be pretty terrible… I use Vimperator on FF, and not only are the Chrome alternatives awfully lacking in functionality, I also need to have enabled JS for them to work. Safe?

Re: Is Firefox Doomed?

#83

Post by Karellen »

olivercameron wrote: post #6
ck2 wrote: post #2

If Microsoft can be sued (and lose) for making IE the only/default/integrated browser on millions of copies of Windows - why does not the same apply to Chrome/Safari on Android/Iphone?

Because neither Apple or Google have a monopoly on the browser market anywhere near what Microsoft had. Also, Microsoft was sued for actively thwarting competition[1] in order to maintain it's position. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

While your first point is valid, the fact that Apple completely refuse to allow any 3rd party browsers on iPhone/iPad/etc... puts them in a worse position competition-thwarting-wise than MS with IE.

Re: Is Firefox Doomed?

#84

Post by lmorchard »

insertnickname wrote: post #69
AaronMT wrote: post #60

No. It is not doomed. Google would not let ~350 million potential users go to waste.

Most users would probably just set Google as the default search engine themselves if it wasn't default.

Most users never touch defaults. I'd bet you $100 million a year that AltaVista would stay default in the majority of Firefox installs, if it were released that way.

Re: Is Firefox Doomed?

#85

Post by billpatrianakos »

Google isn't exactly about the browser, they're all about search. Not renewing wouldn't make sense. Microsoft would benefit greatly by partnering with Mozilla and Google shouldn't let that happen from a business standpoint.

I think that despite Chroke's dominance Firefox isn't going anywhere. The article kind of made it sound like Mozilla was on the ropes which it's pretty far from. There will always be a market for those who want a browser from a company that is on their side and that's Mozilla. Chrome is aweso,e but there are going to be people concerned about the data collection that goes on. Chrome is out there to enrich Google. IE is infamous for being behind the times and just a crappy browser all around for standards, weird toolbars that install the,selves, etc. Then there's Mozilla. What ulterior motives do they have? From all I've ever learned they're just out there trying to build a kick ass browser and move the web forward. No search engine to support, no billion dollar software company to promote, just a humble browser maker in it for the users.

Chrome may overtake them in market share but I don't see Mozilla straying too far behind Google for the foreseeable future. IE share will keep tanking and Safari, while a great browser, will still be kind of a trailing behind cult classic.

Re: Is Firefox Doomed?

#86

Post by saint-loup »

gkoberger wrote: post #56
mattmanser wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not addressing his key point, I'm recommending Chrome to anyone I speak to, many other developers I know are too. Firefox is slow, sluggish to use and confusing compared to Chrome. The edge it had over IE was that it was a better user experience. It's not compared to Chrome anymore. Even IE is better than FF apart from the weird crash like blank screen glitch when opening a new tab that IE has.

I don't have a problem with you recommending Chrome (and I work at Mozilla). However, it's not fair to say Firefox is sluggish. With a new profile, it's just as fast as Chrome. Try it. Chrome has an advantage because it's relatively new. It doesn't have to deal with over a decade of add-ons and browser history and cookies. Much like how a computer gets slow and needs to be reformatted, people who are browser power us…

>>> Try vacuuming your Firefox database [1], syncing everything [2] and/or create a new profile [3] with only the extensions you actually use.

That's part of the problem. I'm a huge fan of Firefox, but I shouldn't have to manage these things in order to keep my browser fluid after six months of regular use.

Re: Is Firefox Doomed?

#87

Post by krevis »

Karellen wrote: post #83
olivercameron wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because neither Apple or Google have a monopoly on the browser market anywhere near what Microsoft had. Also, Microsoft was sued for actively thwarting competition[1] in order to maintain it's position. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

While your first point is valid, the fact that Apple completely refuse to allow any 3rd party browsers on iPhone/iPad/etc... puts them in a worse position competition-thwarting-wise than MS with IE.

Not true. You can get Opera for iOS: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/opera-mini-web-browser/id3637...

Re: Is Firefox Doomed?

#88

Post by michaelcampbell »

bad_user wrote: post #61

I'm a developer that switched back to Firefox, after I gave up on it during the 3.5 days. Firefox almost died in its transition to version 4, however now it is back on track. I prefer it over Chrome because Firefox is a platform, not a product that treats me like a dumb user. I use it on my Android too. It's a little sluggish and still uses too much memory, however it has a killer feature - it syncs everything with m…

> not a product that treats me like a dumb user

I use both Chrome and FF, and I never felt like a browser was "treating me" like anything. They're both tools.

Maybe because I AM a dumb user? ... Oh god.

Re: Is Firefox Doomed?

#90

Post by icebraining »

grimlck wrote: post #77
gkoberger wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry about the version number -- a higher number doesn't mean there's a ton of new features; it merely means 6 weeks has passed. Pretty soon, upgrade dialogs will be completely suppressed and it won't matter what version you're on (much like Chrome). I like the rapid release; it means as a developer I can play with new features much sooner. Firefox is as fast or faster than any other browser (assuming you don'…

Version number does matter because they can't seem to create a stable add-on API, and therefore version increment == add-on breakage.

Actually there is a stable API that works much like Chrome's, it's called Jetpack [1], the problem is that most addons don't use it, in part because also like Chrome's, it's much more limited - the default JS API basically gives the addon access to the whole Firefox internals.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetpack_(Firefox_project)

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