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Some Asians' college strategy: Don't check 'Asian'

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Re: Some Asians' college strategy: Don't check 'Asian'

#71

Post by barrkel »

sliverstorm wrote: post #70
barrkel wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The myth of equality of opportunity is indeed to be protected; but it is a myth, because uncountably more opportunities are afforded to the children of the privileged - things like affirmative action are tiny in the overall scale. I really don't like what you are insinuating. You appear to be implying that some people are inferior due to the ancestry of their parents, or the daily practices of their parents. You shou…

I really don't like what you are insinuating. You appear to be implying that some people are inferior due to the ancestry of their parents Is this just willful blindness? Do you really believe all ethnicity are perfectly matched in their potential? It's hard to study academia because we don't understand the brain well enough, but do a little reading about ethnicity and genetics as it relates to sports.

I don't think "all ethnicity are perfectly matched in their potential" is an interesting statement one way or the other. I believe individuals are more interesting than arbitrarily chosen groups. I believe we should judge people on their own merits, rather than choosing groups, taking averages of those groups, and then using those groups to make judgements.

Re: Some Asians' college strategy: Don't check 'Asian'

#73

Post by suivix »

temphn wrote: post #49

According to PBS, Race is an Illusion: http://www.pbs.org/race/000_General/000_00-Home.htm Jared Diamond concurs: http://www.learntoquestion.com/resources/database/archives/0... If you believe their arguments, there is no scientific basis for categorizing someone on the basis of race. Appearance is particularly hazardous. Therefore, why can't Asians mark black on the application? Who is to say they are not black if t…

Even if race were not an illusion, they are separated by only 60,000 years or so of evolution which is barely anything.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_mode...

Re: Some Asians' college strategy: Don't check 'Asian'

#74

Post by skeptical »

barrkel wrote: post #69
skeptical wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to take either side, but it sounds like you have a huge taboo that you want to put to bed by saying 'I don't like what you are insinuating'. I'm not taking neither reinhardt's nor your side. But this 'don't touch this subject because it's sensitive' strategy is getting old and pretty ridiculous to resource to. A few lines after you wrote this __You should learn something: that variance within groups is f…

I think taboos exist for very good reasons. The fact that something is a taboo does not, in and of itself, mean that it needs to be challenged. The problem is that very few people are rational. There are a lot of people who gain courage to do very unpleasant things once they've heard arguments that they can use as internal justifications, when they are not themselves sophisticated enough to understand how sound the a…

I completely disagree with you. You might want whatever taboos you like, I'm ok with that and won't challenge them.

But heck, if you are going to discuss something then you must be free of taboos in that particular mater, or else your opinion is just bananas. I mean, of what value is your opinion on something you're afraid of talking about?

EDIT: I don't want to be a downvote bitch. But it I am noticing my comments on this thread are all downvoted. I guess some people has the taboo so strongly imprinted on their minds that they don't even want me to mention it.

Re: Some Asians' college strategy: Don't check 'Asian'

#75

Post by yummyfajitas »

barrkel wrote: post #65
yummyfajitas wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You appear to be implying that some people are inferior due to the ancestry of their parents, or the daily practices of their parents. No, the implication is that P(inferior | race X) != P(inferior | race Y). ...we do hold to equality across racial and cultural lines; There are two types of equality under discussion: a) Statistical equality - P(Q > cutoff | race X) == cdf(Q > cutoff| race Y), where Q is some quality…

I'm referring to "equality" in this statement: Indeed, the myth of equality across racial and cultural lines must be protected at any cost. and trying to tease out its meaning in the context at hand. The context at hand appears to be in making decisions about people's lives. I don't see how to read it in any other way than "people should discriminate on the basis of race and culture"; and given reinhardt's previous c…

I interpreted "equality" in reinhardt's statement to mean statistical equality. Statistical equality is an empirical claim - if people wrongly believe it to be true, it would be a "myth".

Re: Some Asians' college strategy: Don't check 'Asian'

#76

Post by gwern »

clvv wrote: post #27

An asian high school senior here. I'm currently in the process of applying to colleges. In most college applications, demographics are listed under the section where they say the information you provide won't hurt your change of getting in. I have not and will not lie about my race on any of the applications. I understand that, statistically, it will hurt my chance of getting into a top-tier college, considering I do…

> I understand that, statistically, it will hurt my chance of getting into a top-tier college, considering I don't have perfect SAT score and GPA. But I believe that the admission officers would be wise enough to evaluate a person as a whole instead of just puting "tags" on him/her.

Er... what? So you believe putting the wrong tag on yourself will hurt your evaluation by the admission officers; but you also believe they are wise enough to not just put tags on yourself.

You're saying something here, but I don't know what it is.

Re: Some Asians' college strategy: Don't check 'Asian'

#78

Post by _pius »

adgar wrote: post #40
BlackJack wrote: post #25

Full disclaimer: I'm a sophomore at Yale, my adviser last year was an admissions officer, and a friend of mine works in the admissions office. I'm also friends with the girl photographed, but that's irrelevant :) This is roughly how admissions works at Yale: 1. An officer reviews your application for 20-25 minutes. 1a. Some kids are clear rejects. 1500/2400 SAT and a 2.7 GPA, with no activities usually does the trick…

> I don't think checking "Asian" or "not Asian" makes a huge difference, because in the end, it's your activities, recommendations, and essays that differentiate you. This flies in the face of the fact that affirmative actions exists and that the racial demographics at any given college are typically consistent year-to-year. Somehow the numbers get hit every single year, yet you claim it's an inherent property of the…

This flies in the face of the fact that affirmative actions exists and that the racial demographics at any given college are typically consistent year-to-year.

Not if you know how affirmative action actually works.

Re: Some Asians' college strategy: Don't check 'Asian'

#79

Post by gujk »

localhost3000 wrote: post #58
jklp wrote: post #48

> "Not to really generalize, but a lot of Asians, they have perfect SATs, perfect GPAs, ... so it's hard to let them all in," Olmstead says. I didn't know there was a quota on how many Asian students a college could accept. And besides, doesn't a college want the best students in their college, regardless of ethnicity?

'best student' != 'best score/gpa'

Thank you. It is insane how many people think college admissions is the official scoreboard oof high school, and not something to do with choosing students who are well matched to the college.

Re: Some Asians' college strategy: Don't check 'Asian'

#80

Post by _pius »

tokenadult wrote: post #51
socratic wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that 0% of MIT admissions is non-academic admits (legacy, recruited athletes, development, under-represented minorities). Is that incorrect?

My understanding is that 0% of MIT admissions is non-academic admits (legacy, recruited athletes, development, under-represented minorities). Is that incorrect? You are thinking of Caltech. MIT, by contrast, very vigorously practices affirmative action by race and ethnicity. (MIT filed "friend of the court" briefs in the last Supreme Court cases about affirmative action in college admission.) http://mitadmissions.org…

You're correct that MIT practices affirmative action, but incorrect that this means they have "non-academic" admits.
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